Why Bush's H-Car is Just Hot Air

The New Republic ^ | February 18, 2003 | Greg Easterbrook

[MurryMom]

Bush finally tries to appease the environmentalists and it turns out he's merely attempting to deceive the voters yet again.

Go figure!

[ECM]

I think we're all aware that there really is no appeasing environmentalists. Even when he attempts to cater to them, he gets spit on.

And yeah, hydrogen-based fuel cells are a pipe dream, but so is just about every other form of "renewable" energy.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Boiled down, the reason that hydrogen from water won't work is that it takes more enegy to break the bond between hydrogen and water than a fuel cell can produce. This energy must come from somewhere and it is usually electricity. The load put on the power grid to generate enough hydrogen to fuel +200 million cars wouold bring it to its knees.

[Monster Zero]

Speaking of hot air...

[TontoKowalski]

Looks like nuclear energy is about the only way to go.

[Chemist_Geek]

And yeah, hydrogen-based fuel cells are a pipe dream,

And there would only be a market for a few dozen computers in the United States, and there was no point in drilling for oil, and what were those Wright brothers thinking anyway...

[NittanyLion]

You're right - this hydrogen talk is nonsense. It's clear nuclear power is the best long-term solution.

[ECM]

I'm sorry you don't like the current version of reality/physics making the rounds.

Come talk to me when it doesn't take MORE energy to make hyrogen cells 'pound for pound' equal to fossil fuels.

(see you in half a century or more)

[Lee Heggy]

"64 K of memory should be enough for anyone."

Bill Gates

[altayann]

True, but the same applies to petroleum deposits as well.

The reason petroleum is cheaper than any current alternative is that extra energy has been applied to it over millions of years through the pressure exerted on it by the earth's crust.

Petroleum, in other words, comes with a hidden 'subsidy'. Unless there's a way of creating hydrogen more cheaply, you're never going to get around this problem.

[NittanyLion]

And there would only be a market for a few dozen computers in the United States, and there was no point in drilling for oil, and what were those Wright brothers thinking anyway...

This isn't a question of marketing, it's one of science. More energy must be put into producing hydrogen than the hydrogen itself can provide. That is a constant and always will be.

[eastsider]

But there's a catch: Making hydrogen from water requires loads of electricity, far more electricity than the energy value of the hydrogen that is obtained, and something--be it a coal-fired power plant or an atomic reactor--must provide the electricity.... John McCarthy, a Stanford University professor emeritus of computer science, has written, "The large-scale use of hydrogen depends on using either nuclear or solar electricity."

I'm no authority on energy production, but couldn't the electricity be generated from wind power?

[biblewonk]

Wind power rocks but making hydrogen is pointless. At 5 cents per kwhr for the electricity, how much would a tank of hydrogen cost? I'll be excited, though, when wind power reaches 1 percent of the US electricity supply.

[Paul_B]

> Republicans relentlessly mocked Al Gore for saying the internal combustion engine should be replaced by something better, and now George W. Bush is saying exactly the same thing.

Not quite. Gore's plan doubtless would have entailed aggressive government regulations to fit an unproven agenda. Bush, OTOH, is spending research bucks to first develop the technology. Big dif.

I agree with the article's point, though, that Bush's rhetoric, like Clinton's and Gore's previous on the subject, is far too utopian. There are massive problems to switching to hydrogen or electric powered cars in a way that transcends zero-sum use of existing fuels to make hydrogen or electricity (though even that could bring some small logistical advantage, as in lowering pollution in dense population areas).

I suppose the reason for the smooth rhetoric, and the massive cumulative loosing of governmental coffers in general that we have seen, is to silence domestic political opposition one issue at a time. This stuff tends to play well among the masses. Such is the political reality, I guess.

[radioman]

The load put on the power grid to generate enough hydrogen to fuel +200 million cars wouold bring it to its knees.

You remind me of my grandfather. His dad told him not to give up blacksmithing to work on automobiles. "They're just a passing fad."

Hydrogen fueled vehicles are already in use. Production of hydrogen is simple and efficient. The 1.2 billion is to set up a distribution system.
Fuel cells and hydrogen on demand may be science fiction, but filling your tank at a hydrogen service station is possible now.

[thepitts]

Bush finally tries to appease the environmentalists and it turns out he's merely attempting to deceive the voters yet again.

I agree with your statement, but not you agenda.

[BlackJack]

Wind power can make electricity cheaper than coal.
Bacteria can produce Hydrogen VERY cheaply.

Whatever happened to America's famous "can do" attitude?
Look at all these FR whiners,"we can't do it" "we can't make
Hydrogen" whaaaaaa

Yeah Nukes-the way to go-the most dangerous expensive way to
make a Kw ever devised by Big BROTHER and the holding co.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

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[NittanyLion]

Yeah Nukes-the way to go-the most dangerous expensive way to make a Kw ever devised by Big BROTHER and the holding co.

Dangerous? When one considers the emissions (or lack thereof) nuclear power is actually quite safe. As far as expenses, remove government regulation and nuclear power would be much more price competitive.