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Verdict in German 9-11 Trial: Guilty - 15 years for first 9/11 accused
Wednesday, February 19, 2003

Posted on 02/19/2003 4:46:44 AM PST by JohnHuang2

Edited on 02/19/2003 4:59:15 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

HAMBURG, Germany --A Moroccan man accused of aiding the September 11 suicide hijackers has been jailed for 15 years in the first trial of a suspect in the plot to attack the United States.

Mounir el Motassadeq, a 28-year-old electrical engineering student, was found guilty of being an accessory to 3,045 murders in New York and Washington and being member of a terrorist organisation.

CNN's Matthew Chance said the 15-year sentence was the maximum the court could impose under German law.

Prosecutors alleged he provided logistical support for the Hamburg al Qaeda cell that included lead hijacker Mohamed Atta, who piloted one of the two airliners that crashed into the World Trade Center.

Police blocked off the street in front of the Hamburg courthouse on Wednesday morning as dozens of journalists queued for tight security screening to enter the building.

El Motassadeq consistently denied the charges during his three-and-a-half-month trial and his lawyers were seeking an acquittal from the five-judge panel.

During the trial the defendant acknowledged he knew the six other alleged members of the Hamburg cell -- Atta plus two other pilots of the airliners, Ziad Jarrah and Marwan al-Shehhi; and logisticians Ramzi Binalshibh, Said Bahaji and Zakariya Essabar. But he said he knew nothing of their plans.

"I couldn't believe that people I knew could do something like that," el Motassadeq said in his closing statement last week. "I watched it on television and I was shocked... I can only hope that something like September 11 never happens again."

But witnesses testified that el Motassadeq, a slight, bearded man, was as radical as the rest of the group, talking of jihad -- holy war -- and his hatred of Israel and the United States.

The defendant himself admitted training in a camp run by Osama bin Laden -- the al Qaeda chief alleged by the U.S. to be the mastermind of the September 11 attacks -- in Afghanistan in 2000.

Prosecutors alleged el Motassadeq used his power of attorney over al-Shehhi's bank account to pay rent, tuition and utility bills, allowing the plotters to keep up the appearance of being normal students in Germany.

El Motassadeq argued he was simply providing an innocent service to friends and that he took weapons training in Afghanistan because he believed all Muslims should learn to shoot.

The defence tried several times unsuccessfully to obtain testimony by two of el Motassadeq's friends, Ramzi Binalshibh and Mohammed Haydar Zammar -- a lack of evidence that the lawyers say could be grounds for an appeal in case of a guilty verdict.

Binalshibh, a Yemeni suspect in U.S. custody, is believed to have been the Hamburg cell's key contact with al Qaeda. Zammar, an alleged al Qaeda recruiter in Hamburg, is in prison in Syria.

The court failed to get the men released to testify and German authorities refused to turn over their files on the two, saying transcripts of their interrogations were provided to them on condition they only be used for intelligence purposes.

Motassadeq, a member of a middle-class family, came to Germany in 1993 to study. By 1995, he was studying electrical engineering in Hamburg, where he is believed to have first met Atta no later than the following year.

Lawyers representing Americans who lost family members on September 11 had said they would appeal if el Motassadeq did not receive close to the maximum sentence. Family members are allowed to be co-plaintiffs under German law.

A journalist who observed the trial for CNN said the prosecution's job had made more difficult because of the circumstantial nature of the evidence. But there were some dramatic moments.

"Especially telling was the testimony of a witness who accused him of having said all Jews should burn and we will dance on their grave," said Sebastian Fastenau.

Family members of American victims became co-plaintiffs and testified in court, including Stephen Push, who lost his his wife in the September 11 attack on New York.

"One of the most disturbing things about the case was the discovery that the German authorities knew much about this al Qaeda cell years prior to the September 11 attack," he told CNN. "Just like the authorities in the United States -- the FBI and CIA -- they were aware of some of these individuals, have been tracking them and yet were not able to connect the dots, were not able to use that information to prevent the attacks."

Some lawyers had seen the trial as a test case for future al Qaeda prosecutions.

The trial did expose the difficulties of proving al Qaeda membership. What distinguishes a "terrorist organisation" from a criminal group and what constitutes membership?

"The legal demands set are very high. You need to show there is a hierarchical structure, that it had a purpose and continued for some time," German federal prosecutors told Reuters.

-- CNN Berlin Bureau Chief Stephanie Halasz contributed to this report


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To: Michael81Dus
What is "Dignity" ? The way I interpret Dignity is through dignified actions. Just like what is morality? What is moral to one person isn't necessarily moral to another.Can you show me where Dignity is defined? I do understand that you have become a "liberal" society. You now have to cope with that. Does liberalism mean condone all and spread the wealth?
61 posted on 02/19/2003 8:42:38 AM PST by americanbychoice
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To: An.American.Expatriate
Osama bin Laden himself would be convicted to 15 years imprisonment, and probably after that term handed over to the mental hospital (depends on the psychiatrists).

He was charged with accessory to murder in 3,066 cases, membership in terrorist organization - but he committed these crimes "in Tateinheit", as one. So the penalty is as one, here: the maximum possible.

I don´t interfere in US local politics. Just if my charged fellow-citizen can´t use their rights (assistance by the consulate), I may claim to retrial them and acknowledge the rights.

Extradiction: you didn´t tried to get him. I´m not sure, would he face the death penalty for accessory??
62 posted on 02/19/2003 8:42:40 AM PST by Michael81Dus (You have (had) G. Bush, J. Cash, B. Hope & S. Wonder - we have Schröder: no cash, no hope, no wonder)
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To: Michael81Dus
Michael, on what planet have you been living? The europeans constantly criticize the US Justice system on everything from the Death Penalty (regardless of the Vienna Convention) to penalties for "jay walking" (okay an exageration). In my 14+ years in Europe, almost every conversation regarding criminal justice in America is chock full of such criticism. Your media is also extremely critical.

While I can respect that other countries have other systems and ways of dealing with thier problems, I DO have the right to criticize them.

63 posted on 02/19/2003 8:43:10 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate
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To: americanbychoice
Don´t mix social welfare systems with our jurisdiction.

The untouchable dignity is given to every human by birth.
The state cannot and must not take it from you. It´s our state´s principle! You may not be treated in a way you dignity is taken from you (e.g. as a prisoner you have a right to 3 meals a day, take a shower regulary, right to read the news or books, etc; as a citizen no employee of the state may insult you or treat you bad, and, the state may not take away all your hope to be free once by a life-long-imprisonment sentence).
64 posted on 02/19/2003 8:48:10 AM PST by Michael81Dus (You have (had) G. Bush, J. Cash, B. Hope & S. Wonder - we have Schröder: no cash, no hope, no wonder)
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To: An.American.Expatriate
And I think we should not interfere in the decisions of the other society as long as they don´t affect us. I don´t blame America for the death penalty. I´ve my own thoughts, ok, but I wouldn´t blame you for that.
65 posted on 02/19/2003 8:49:50 AM PST by Michael81Dus (You have (had) G. Bush, J. Cash, B. Hope & S. Wonder - we have Schröder: no cash, no hope, no wonder)
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To: Michael81Dus
Your post proves my point!

As I already stated, conspiracy to commit a crime carries the same penalty as the crime itself. This means that, for example, if I were to hire A to kill B, I would be just as guilty as A when he carries out the crime. So, yes, he would have faced a possible death sentence and, since a request for extradition would have been immediately refused on these grounds, it serves no purpose to make the request, unless you want to play silly diplomatic games.



66 posted on 02/19/2003 8:50:07 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate
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To: Michael81Dus
I believe you are talking about basic human rights (three meals a day,etc.) Dignity stems from actions that are either dignified or not. For instance, Murder is not a dignified act, however, basic human rights in his/her treatment after the fact is something no one argues with.
67 posted on 02/19/2003 8:53:11 AM PST by americanbychoice
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To: Michael81Dus
you should also note that not everywhere in America the death penalty exists. We believe in state rights. Therefore, every state has it's own laws.
68 posted on 02/19/2003 8:55:36 AM PST by americanbychoice
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To: An.American.Expatriate
STOP! I considered OBL to be guilty only of accessory, not being the inciter. As the inciter, he´d face the life-long imprisonment (15-20 years with following life-long stay in mental hospital)! We make a difference between offender and inciter (both the same) and those who are guilty of aiding and abetting. The penalties of the last ones must be mitigated (from life-long to 15 years in this case) by law.
69 posted on 02/19/2003 8:59:16 AM PST by Michael81Dus (You have (had) G. Bush, J. Cash, B. Hope & S. Wonder - we have Schröder: no cash, no hope, no wonder)
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To: americanbychoice
Yeah, ca. 40 states have the capital punishment, and only around 35 of these use it regulary?
70 posted on 02/19/2003 9:00:12 AM PST by Michael81Dus (You have (had) G. Bush, J. Cash, B. Hope & S. Wonder - we have Schröder: no cash, no hope, no wonder)
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To: Michael81Dus
Again, you prove my point - conspiracy to commit does not limit itself to "the inciter" and the perpetrator. It extends to all "enablers" as well. The only thing that must be proven is that the suspected enabler had forknowledge of the crime to be comitted. As in all cases, there are of course mitigating factors. This however, does not limit the initial consequence (having been involved in the conspiracy). This means that, in the case of 9/11, if the persons who taught the terrorists how to fly had known of theier intent and anyway continued to train them, the trainers would be guilty as an accomplice/accessory.

What type of logic can be used to justify that, simply because the accomplice didn't actually pull the trigger, he is somehow guilty of a lesser crime? Especially when the accomplice provided substatial material assistance to the furtherence of the act and had forknowledge that the crime would be commited!
71 posted on 02/19/2003 9:10:43 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate
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To: An.American.Expatriate
"What type of logic can be used to justify that, simply because the accomplice didn't actually pull the trigger, he is somehow guilty of a lesser crime?"

I may explain you:
We believe that the offender by "pulling the trigger" goes a step further. It´s not only saying and preparing or supporting the crime - it´s committing the crime! To execute the actus reus, you need more cruelty.
72 posted on 02/19/2003 9:24:10 AM PST by Michael81Dus (You have (had) G. Bush, J. Cash, B. Hope & S. Wonder - we have Schröder: no cash, no hope, no wonder)
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Comment #73 Removed by Moderator

To: Michael81Dus
another question: If I contract you to kill my spouse, what would I be charged with?
74 posted on 02/19/2003 9:45:16 AM PST by americanbychoice
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To: americanbychoice
You were inciter, if I killed your wife. And therefore, both of us would be punished with the life-long imprisonment.
75 posted on 02/19/2003 9:55:51 AM PST by Michael81Dus (You have (had) G. Bush, J. Cash, B. Hope & S. Wonder - we have Schröder: no cash, no hope, no wonder)
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To: Michael81Dus
So, according to your logic, if I were involved in a plot to kill as many people as my group could, but my only involvment was to say procure the necessary material (let's say poison gas), but did not actually release the gas, I would be less guilty in the deaths of those affected?

Sorry, this is moral relativism at it's best! All parties are equally guilty and should bear an equal burden.

BTW, this "logic" stems from Germany's past where the "I was only folowing orders" plea needed some type of way out. It is a cope out and "justice" is not served by it.
76 posted on 02/19/2003 11:25:51 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate
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Comment #77 Removed by Moderator

To: An.American.Expatriate
It depends how much you did. If you exactly knew the plan of the group and wanted that it happens you can be punished as an accomplice - the same penalty! But in this case (I just looked up in my law dictionary) the criminal was guilty of aiding and abetting. There´s a little difference and it depends on how much the individual has done. Here, the offender hasn´t made such a great contribution to the mass-murder, so he couldn´t be sentenced as a accomplice.

E.g. A wants to kill his evil boss C by car accident, and tells that his friend B. If C has no interest in the mansalughter/murder and doesn´t know when it exactly happens - but offers A his car, B is guilty of aiding and abetting (mitigation!). If B says "Ok, when will it start! here you get my car!" he´s guilty of accomplice and will be punished like A. See?
78 posted on 02/19/2003 11:38:15 AM PST by Michael81Dus (You have (had) G. Bush, J. Cash, B. Hope & S. Wonder - we have Schröder: no cash, no hope, no wonder)
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To: Michael81Dus
Just wanted to say that you're doing a good job of explaining German law.

Folks, the legal system in Germany is one of the best things in the country. There is an independent judiciary and the law is applied fairly consistently (although sentences tend to be higher in the South - esp. Bavaria - than in the North - e.g., Hamburg).

It isn't easy to compare the legal systems of the U.S., which has its origins in English common law, and Germany, which relies much more heavily on statute law.

Asking Germany to bring back the death penalty is silly. And Michael has never criticized the U.S. for having capital punishment on the books, so I wish people would stop beating up on him.
79 posted on 02/19/2003 12:10:17 PM PST by tictoc
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To: tictoc
;-) Thank you. I don´t wish to have stronger laws. Our laws are ok. But I´d like to have less comfortable prisons and that the judges take the full strength of the laws (that´s what they´re doing in the South).
80 posted on 02/19/2003 12:13:41 PM PST by Michael81Dus (You have (had) G. Bush, J. Cash, B. Hope & S. Wonder - we have Schröder: no cash, no hope, no wonder)
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