Posted on 02/18/2003 7:23:50 PM PST by TLBSHOW
Board: Shuttle Lost Parts Over Calif.
SPACE CENTER, Houston - Space shuttle Columbia began losing pieces over the California coast well before it disintegrated over Texas, the accident investigation board reported Tuesday, finally confirming what astronomers and amateur skywatchers have been saying from Day One.
But board member James Hallock, a physicist and chief of the Transportation Department's aviation safety division, said the fragments were probably so small they burned up before reaching the ground.
He said the conclusion that the space shuttle was shedding pieces a full six minutes before it came apart over Texas was based on images of the doomed flight. Astronomers and amateurs on the West Coast photographed and videotaped the shuttle's final minutes.
"Obviously, it would be very important to understand what those pieces are, particularly the ones that started falling off at the very beginning," because they would shed light on the earliest stages of the breakup, he said.
However, Hallock said the pieces that came off early did not seem to be very big, judging from the light reflected off them.
"For us to find something that far back along the path, I think it's going to have to be a pretty substantial piece of the shuttle itself," he said.
Moreover, he added: "That's a lot of area to be looking. ... We have the Grand Canyon area and all of the areas of Southern California, the mountainous area and stuff like this, that even if we could home in on some of these things, it's going to be very difficult to find it. But we sure would like to see it."
In their second news conference in as many weeks, the board members also said they are not convinced the debris that hit the left wing shortly after liftoff on Jan. 16 was insulating foam from the external fuel tank. It is possible the debris was actually ice or much heavier insulating material behind the foam, they said.
Hallock said the suspected breach in Columbia's left wing had to have been bigger than a pinhole, in order to allow the superheated gases surrounding the ship to penetrate the hull.
In other news:
_ The board said it hopes to hold its first public hearing next week, possibly on Feb. 27, to listen to non-NASA (news - web sites) experts who have theories about what destroyed the shuttle. The hearing will be held somewhere in the Houston area. The board has been criticized by some U.S. lawmakers as being too closely tied to NASA.
"We will invite experts who are not associated with any U.S. government program who have theories or hypothesis, who have written to us or provided research documents, to express to us their opinions," said board chairman Harold Gehman Jr., a retired Navy admiral. "That way we get input ... not by any government agency."
_ The board split into three teams Tuesday — materials, operations and technology — and began delving into what may have caused a breach in the shuttle's left wing.
_ An Air Force telescope in Maui took pictures of Columbia as the shuttle orbited overhead during its mission. Gehman said the images were being analyzed and it was too soon to know whether they may hold clues to the shuttle's demise.
_ An external fuel tank identical to the one used by Columbia has been impounded at the Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans and will be tested. If any destructive testing is performed, engineers need to be careful because "we only get one shot at it," Gehman said.
_ Nearly 4,000 pieces of debris have been shipped to Florida's Kennedy Space Center (news - web sites), of which 2,600 have been identified and cataloged, Gehman said. Investigators hope to partially assemble the pieces to help them figure out what happened to the space shuttle. An additional 10,000 pieces are headed to Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana and Kennedy.
It is impossible to calculate how much of Columbia the recovered pieces represent, the board said. In terms of weight, it represents only a tiny portion because so much of the wreckage is small, like fragments of insulation.
In the more than two weeks since the tragedy, the NASA-appointed board has publicly put forth just one hypothesis: that the superheated gases surrounding the spaceship during its descent through the atmosphere penetrated the left wing.
Still a major focus of the investigation is the supposed 2 1/2-pound chunk of rigid insulating foam that broke off Columbia's external fuel tank shortly after liftoff and slammed into the left wing at more than 500 mph.
NASA concluded while Columbia was still in orbit that any damage caused by the foam was slight and posed no safety threat. But engineers are now redoing their analysis to see if they made a mistake or missed something.
Air Force Maj. Gen. John Barry, a member of the investigating board, identified four previous launches, as far back as 1983, in which foam from the same part of the fuel tank struck a shuttle's thermal tiles. "We've got some backtracking to do," he said.
The board has yet to order any foam or thermal tile impact tests, Gehman said. Over the years, NASA has shot .22-caliber bullets, BB pellets and even ice at tiles, and the board wants to read up on this "enormous library of testing" first, he said.
"Before we go ordering NASA to do things, the first thing we're doing is getting smart," Gehman said.
The board began its work within hours of Columbia's breakup on Feb. 1. The shuttle was traveling at 18 times the speed of sound and was just minutes away from a Florida touchdown when contact was lost. All seven astronauts aboard were killed.
The newest member of the 10-person panel, former Air Force Secretary Sheila Widnall, will join her colleagues later this week. Additional members are being sought to include more scientific experts and quell criticism from members of Congress who contend the board is not independent enough of NASA.
I did not see the flames etc. that you speak of, but I feel like I should say something about the above comment.
The shuttle did not break up over California. It did lose some tiles, nobody is sure how many, but video evidence that has not been released, indicates loss of at least one or two.
That evidence is some pics taken by a astronomer and were taken near the western border.
Most speculate the craft was already over Nevada at the time.
The real solid evidence of problems occurring over California comes from sensor readings of temp increases in the elevons and skin. This was the first indication of trouble and was known from day one.
As to the break up, the shuttle shed more parts over AZ and then more over west Texas and then broke up as it passed Dallas/FW.
From the video evidence location, one would surmise that if any of that made it to the ground, it would be in Nevada.
From the time of the first NASA announcements, we knew of the problem beginning over California.
I too left a sentence vague when I said the words western border, I should have said western border of Nevada. The location where the astronomer shot his pics.
The tiles are important to find, if they exist and did not completely burn up. They have a specific shape and a serial #.
This would verify the location of the initial damage. I think death valley would be one place they might be. But it is pretty unlikely.
I am thinking of getting the SUV loaded.
Yeah if they can pin point which tiles then they can rule out the foam or not. I sure they have a good idea were the tiles are positioned and what area the foam struck. Are they still going to do the foam\tile testing?
I know one thing I would definitely study the tiles that survived the crash. I would go back and look at the batch numbers for the good tiles Vs. the damaged tiles and see if anything special occurred during the processing that gave the surviving good tiles more strength. Then I would study the bonding and strategic placement of tiles to look for better arrangements.
I do not relished the NASA people's job right now. They have to analyze and figure out what caused the accident and then figure out away to prevent it. If they go with new stuff there will be the nightmare of retesting and recertifying of raw materials and processes and not to mention the amount of quantifying quality for the new product. That is one huge load to be carrying.
Yeah, It is clear to me that foam hit did the deed.
I fought it at first and now understand the physics and the energy that foam carried when it struck the wing underside between the leading edge and the gear door.
I believe it punched a depression in the tiles and damaged the honeycomb panel underneath.
The eventual burn out damaged the RCC supports and glove support as well as the wiring.
As the structure failed the problem got worse and led to loss of control and the shuttle.
Tired.......
Of all the shuttle parts, loose tiles are the least likely to burn up, first because they are designed not to burn up, and second, because their low mass and high cross section would slow them down quickly. They are not going to be many miles from where they dislodged.
I don't think they'll be stupid enough to let another one like him on board.
You received a number of other supporting replies to other ralated posts you and others made.
Then, five hours later, 10:30 est, in that thread HOWLIN came on and started raising a ruckus about your observations of the reports. "Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..", to quote her, she was upset at what she called uniinformed specualtion, that ran counter to what she understood the NASA statements to suggest. You responded, with cites, she with short barbs.
At 11:36 pm est, HOWLIN posts "It broke up over Texas, that's how. And you said California. And you're wrong. Again."
FRED MERTZ joins you countering HOWLIN. CMSGOP joins Howlin, and posts "Im sure he [the Cal Tech Astronomer who reported seeing something] is a great guy,but he might not know dick about vehicles on re-entry....." -- A fair enough claim, except that the "might not know dick" takes it over the top, eh?
TOMSERVO seems to offer a well-done post to Howlin. Then at 1:45 AM est you bring up teh Don Nelson letter, warning the Bush Admisitration about the overly high risk of another major shuttle disaster.
That brings on a bunch of "active discussion" not directly related to the original observation of where the shuttle broke up. Not pretty, not even strong arguments against your points -- just emotion and chearleading.
Bump for some good info.
Anybody who can make me laugh gets a "well-done". It was a funny remark.
As for this statement of his:
and a freeper saw it on fire over Las Vegas
That's just an absolute lie.....and even the Freeper who posted it came on the thread and said he did NOT say it was on fire, but Todd kept repeating and spamming that particular lie.
Regardless of WHERE is began to lose parts, it did NOT BREAK UP, BURN UP, and EXPLODE over California, which is what Todd said from the beginning. Even this article said that the pieces that came off over California were so small they burned up in the atmosphere. That's why NO parts have been found anywhere except Texas.
We never said nothing was wrong with the shuttle; we simply tried to correct the bogus reports Todd was posting, up to and including misconstruing words of a Freeper to try to make HIS own vacuous posts true.
In case you haven't noticed, Todd WILL change his posts to suit the outcome. It's a "gift" he has, in case you didn't know.
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