Assault rifles offer a bit too much for home defense

Indy Star ^

[conservativefromGa]

John Strauss

Assault rifles offer a bit too much for home defense

February 14, 2003

As store shelves throughout the city are emptied of duct tape and plastic sheeting by people concerned about terrorist attacks, other folks think the best defense is a good offense.

Don Davis said gun sales at his Westside store have doubled since the latest terrorism alert. He said the $599 AK-47 is a top seller.

Davis became locally famous a few years ago with endlessly repeated TV commercials in which he cocked a finger at the camera and cackled, "Folks, I don't want to make money -- I just love to sell guns."

It turns out that terrorism sells.

"For me, when times are bad, business is good," Davis said Thursday.

He was at a trade show in Florida this week, shopping for gas masks for customers suddenly nervous about chemical or biological attacks.

At his Don's Guns, manager Ben Chance let me test-fire the AK-47 and a $999 Bushmaster, similar to the military M-16, in the store's indoor range.

The Bushmaster delivers a high-velocity round very accurately with little kick. The AK-47 will give you a jolt, but with that kick you get a larger round capable, they say, of going through a car's engine block.

Just what you need to stop terrorists invading your subdivision.

Of course, some people might end up with guns simply for home protection. And if that's the case, Chance says, an old-fashioned shotgun might do the trick.

"A 12-gauge is a nice gun to have in the house. You don't have to aim the gun. You just point it in the general vicinity, and you're actually going to hit what you're pointing toward, because (the shot) scatters."

Business also was up at 500 Guns on the Westside and at Pop Guns Trading Post on the Eastside. But managers at those stores said that had more to do with the arrival of income tax refund checks than Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.

"There have been a few people come in and express concern," said Mike Hilton, the manager at Pop Guns. "But overall, people tend to be pretty complacent about it, to be honest."

Hilton said he recommends that someone who wants a gun take a training course. Then, once he has an idea of their skill level, he'll suggest a firearm -- often a small revolver.

He's not big on the AK-47 in this case. If used for self-defense, it's likely to "overpenetrate" -- go right through the attacker, through the wall of your home, through the wall of the next house and into somebody there.

Guy Montgomery, manager of 500 Guns, also recommends a revolver -- not a battlefield rifle -- for home defense.

Still, there's a magnetism about the assault weapons. Firing one of these guns is the shooting equivalent of twisting the throttle on a squat Harley -- lots of noise and simple, raw power.

They're fun, but they may not be real practical.

So if you're convinced al-Qaida is down the street and you want to establish a defensive perimeter in the front hallway, do the neighbors a favor.

Just borrow dad's old shotgun.

[VOA]

Truthfully, for home defense, a 12 ga pump filled with most anything can't be beat.
Even #7 1/2 bird shot at 20 feet will inflict a wicked wound that will take the fight
right out of an intruder.

I think that Aagard (sp?), a writer for The American Rifleman, reached much the same
conclusion. IIRC, he suggested something like a #6 shot with a light powder
load (upland?) in 12 guage.
This would make life nasty for anyone in your sight in a house, but would probably not
serious harm an innocent next door if the charge went through the drywall
found in most American home construction.

And the sound of a pump shotgun being racked is said to have it's own
wonderfully non-violent deterrant quality.

[sneakypete]

You have been fed a lot of misinformation.

[Billy_bob_bob]

I've got an old video shot about fifteen years ago that shows all kinds of different calibers being used against all kinds of different targets, including magnum pistol rounds being shot through windshields, side windows, car doors, etc. Some of the more interesting moments include the firing of a Barrett .50 through a tiny little bush, having the round hit a little branch smaller than your pinky, and then punching through a paper target about twenty yards downrange. The .50 round was flying completely sideways by that point, punching a hole in the paper that looked like a perfect outline of the round if you had laid it on the paper and traced a pencil around it.

The point of the video was to show how average rounds behave in real world conditions, and how even huge rounds can be affected by little things. Another of the images shown in the video was a gentleman firing a .357 right at the side of an old V-8 engine block. The round barely left a scratch. However, this round was a standard jacketed round, a slug of lead in a copper jacket. I'm sure you can put together a custom load that will penetrate or even shatter an engine block, if that is what you design the round for. But the average ammo that the average person is going to buy off the shelf just isn't going to do what these press guys are claiming. Heck, most of these presstitutes havn't even fired a gun in their whole lives. Probably do them a world of good.

[sneakypete]

I think I'll try a folding stock next.

That is ALWAYS the best choice. The pistol grip length is good for transport or storage,but that's it. Unfold the stock if you think you might actually shoot it.

[sneakypete]

Ditto kevlar (pistol proof only) helmets.

Ya gotta wonder what the effect of a 12 gauge 3 inch magnum slug would be on the face plate of one of these helmets.MY bet is instant broken neck,if not penetration.

[sneakypete]

BTW T-15 steel can be purchased from Kahl Specialty Steel in NC for about $10 a lb

Really? Which town are they located in?

[from occupied ga]

Greensboro
http://www.kahlspecialtysteel.com

[Long Cut]

"The only solution is to be aware of where the housebreaker is before he knows where the homeowner is. The homeowner should be behind hard cover and holding a ready weapon. Everything else is Hollywood B.S."

Truer words, as they say. NO MATTER WHAT your gun sounds like when you cock/chamber/load it, if you're not ready to USE it, and to use it CENTER MASS, while keeping YOURSELF SAFE, then you should simply lock the bedroom doors and use a cellphone to call police.

I actually know folks who keep their pumpguns UNLOADED, and intend to "just rack the slide, that'll scare 'em off!". Needless to say, I strongly advise them against this, but there are seemingly THOUSANDS of jobrones who are quite ready to repeat this foolish tactic to them.

[sneakypete]

Another of the images shown in the video was a gentleman firing a .357 right at the side of an old V-8 engine block. The round barely left a scratch.

The reason for this is not that the round lacked sufficent force to bust the block,but that it was striking the block (and windshields)at a angle,and most of the energy was being deflected. This why armor like tanks try to avoid having flat surfaces.

BTW,there is a video out there somewhere (Blue Press by Dillon?) that you can buy that shows a whole car being shot up by a M-60. It just shreds the car,block included

[Long Cut]

"EXACTLY! Racking your slide when you have a intruder in your home mostly accomplished two things,you give away your position to a intruder who may be armed with a gun that is already loaded,and you risk a jam by "short-stroking" it while under pressure. Don't laugh. It happens. So does forgetting to take the safety off."

On this one, Pete, you and I are in COMPLETE, WHOLEHEARTED AGREEMENT. Guns of ANY type are NOT for "show".

If you pick one up, you best be ready, MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY, to use it.

[Shooter 2.5]

The video "Deadly Weapons" is good first time training lesson. I did notice the guy was puzzled and perplexed when he noticed the .50 BMG had keyholed. I know he was all set to brag about the results. At least they were honest enough to show it.

My only problem with the video is some of the rounds hit other obstuctions inside the door. One round penetrated the sheet metal and another would be expected to go through the sheet metal, the bracings and the lock. It wasn't a scientific experiemt.

[chuknospam]

bump

[harpseal]

As I have repeatedly stated clearing a house is one of the most difficult tasks for a team of people. The householder has some advantages. First he/she knows the general layout of the home. Therefor he/she does not need to use the lights. The absolute best course is to get the family into a safe room with the door locked and call the PD to do the clearing. If anyone then forces their way into the safe room open fire until there is nothing moving towards you from the home breaker. There are, however, cases where the homeowner is unsure about a possible entry. In these times a great deal of care must ne exercised in checking so that there is no chance of the homeowner being taken from behind.

As to clearing the house the ideal tools are really unsuitable for a home one own's as grenades tend to make a real mess.

[Long Cut]

"I'm pretty sure the 45/70 would insure you would end up eating T-Rex steaks."

I always used to wonder, what WOULD a dino steak taste like?

Didya ever notice, in ANY movie where the "heroes" face, for whatever reason, dinosaurs, that nobody EVER seems to think of simply picking up a gun and shooting the damn things?

The Jurassic Park movies were even WORSE...at NO TIME in eany of them did ANY gun ever work against the dinos. Hell, in the first, the "hi-tech" park's only weapons (with huge, multi-ton carnivorous animals about) were...SPAS-12 shotguns, which were shown to jam at the wrong time.

The SPAS-12 manufacturer should have sued the filmmakers for libel, IMHO.

[Long Cut]

I'm with you 100%. If home defense is that important, it is important enough to 1) have a plan already in mind; and 2) PRACTICE it, and ensure the family is fully trained as well.

[harpseal]

The face plate is usually not considered able to defeat a .38spl round.

[harpseal]

Taking a clue from Somalia, you can expect the gang-bangers to come out looking for what they need. Realisticly speaking, you will expect them to strip the local stores rather than bother home owners, because that way they maximise the loot and minimize their chances of getting shot

Then when the stores are stripped the slightly slower ones will consider the homes nearby.

[harpseal]

I'm pretty sure the 45/70 would insure you would end up eating T-Rex steaks.

Then I could find out f they taste like chicken.

[Squantos]

No argument ,but, there is a PSAGT helmet in one of the airborne museams that took an AK round point blank on Grenada I believe. The round is still stuck in it I think.......Luck, BS, Glancing hit ? Who knows......

Stay Safe !

[Nick The Freeper]

Where can you get a Mossberg 590 for $240? Any place? Do you know of any good places online? I haven't spent much time looking at shotguns, but I want to pick one up sometime soon.