Please explain the difference between .38 and .380 (vanity)

2/16/03 | self

[rudy45]

I had always believed that the caliber of a gun was the inside diameter of the barrel. Assuming I am correct (am I?) then shouldn't .38 and .380 be "close"? If I remember from high school math, the latter simply implies a greater degree of precision. IOW, a .38 caliber really could be anything from .376 to .384, while .380 caliber has smaller variance--.3796 to .3804?

However, the attendant at a local range said that .38 refers to revolvers while .380 refers to pistols (?)

Thanks.

[HardStarboard]

>>>So a .380 will take 9mm ammo?<<<

I have a 380 Llama - Looks like a scaled down .45 and was the RAF pilots sidearm in WWII. Friend of mine has a 9mm Luger.

NO - the 9mm will not fit in the 380's clip - the cartridge of the 9mm is considerably longer - I believe the diameter is identical however.

[templar]

Now, explain +P loads. ;>)

+P loads are higher than standard pressure loads. Industry standard (SAMMI) pressure standards are usually well below the point the cartridge case fails and the performance of the round can be increased by increasing the pressure (more powder). Strong modern firearms (steel frames, heavy barrels, etc.) can usually handle higher than industry standard pressures and +P gives added performance. Better to stay away from them if you're not absolutely certain of your firearm since it may damage the weapon or wear it out rapidly even if it doesn't blow it up. I never fire +P, I just get a more powerful gun if I feel the need for more performance.

[Dave S]

But you can feed .380 in a 9mm. Bad idea.

What happens? Will it scar the barrel or worse? Curious as I currently have 9mm and I still have a couple boxes of .380 sitting around.

While I asking questions, how do you discard safely ammunition you can not use?

[ABG(anybody but Gore)]

I love these threads. Best place in the world to get info on the right tool for the job. 8^)

[sailorforfreedom]

Sorry to disagree, but the 357 SIG cartridge wasn't just a marketing gimmick. It was designed to produce ballistics identical to the 357 magnum revolver cartridge, but in an autoloader. Why? The 357 magnum is the number one man-stopper: it produces 97% "one-shot stops," which is better than even the 45 cal. auto and the 44 magnum revolver.

The 357 SIG accomplishes what it was designed to do. Powder load, bullet weight, and muzzle velocity are almost identical to the 125 grain 357 magnum revolver factory load. They feel the same, too; my S$W 357 magnum and my Glock 357 SIG both have the same feel- recoil, muzzle lift, etc.

One serious advantage of the 357 SIG that wasn't expected is that the necked-down case gives almost perfect cartridge feeding. Jams are almost unheard of, and are far fewer than with the 40 cal. cartridge. But the necked-down cartridge is a disadvantage for hand-loaders, as necking the cases down can be tricky. Another complication is that the bullets are glued into the cartridge, rather than being crimped. So, many recommend against handloading the 357 SIG, but more skilled handloaders still do.

The 357 SIG case is essentially a 40 cal. autoloader case, necked down to accept the 357 bullet. You can convert a Glock from 40 cal. to 357 SIG, or vice-versa, by just replacing the barrel (a two-minute job).

Several years ago, the Texas Rangers switched from their 357 Magnum revolvers to the 45 cal. autopistol. Many officers were unhappy with the change; they complained that the 45 cal. didn't have the "lightning-bolt" effect of the 357 magnum when it hits a perp. So, they switched to the 357 SIG, and reports say they love it! The best of both worlds.

If I were in a jam, I would want to reach for my pocket and find my Glock subcompact chambered in 357 SIG. Nothing else would make me feel as secure.

[NorseWood]

Bump for my reference file.

[Double Tap]

The head diameter of the .380 is smaller than the 9mmP, so firing a .380 in a 9mmP chamber could cause a case rupture and damage to the gun and your hand. It is also possible, though remote, that the .380 round could slip out from under the extractor and get pushed up into the chamber. Then if a 9mmP round were chambered behind it and it had a FMJ bullet it could conceivably set off the .380 round with the slide out of battery. This would also cause gun damage and possibly injury.

[boris]

Well I got a Walther PPK-S I wish I'd never bought (.380) and a Smith (pre-sellout) .38 snubbie that I love.

--Boris

[JRandomFreeper]

LOL! Bravo!

Excellent explanation. I was just teasing, but with the FR crowd, someone knows the answer. The Right answer.

/john

[cinFLA]

I don't think the bullet is the same, but yeah, the diameter is real similar. .38 curiously has the same diameter as the .357 (magnum).

One refers to the land dimensions, the other the groove dimensions. A subtle difference to make the new cartridge distinct in the minds of the advocates. The .357 cartrige is much longer than the .38 and will not chamber in the .38 revolver. However, the .38 fires nicely in the .357 with the .38+P making a nice inbetween load.

[JRandomFreeper]

Will it scar the barrel or worse?

My single screw-up experience was fairly tame. The round felt wrong and didn't eject. When I dropped the mag and tried to clear the case (barrel pointed down-range), I found the case lodged in the barrel. We (range officer and I, after my @$$ chewing by said RO) used a cleaning rod to back the case out and the pistol fired normally on the correct ammo.

/john

[cinFLA]

It's not a .357 and it's not a magnum but it is a good cartridge.

I believe it is a .357 nominally 124 g. It's power is within the range of low power .357 loads.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

Since the .380 cartridge is shorter and smaller in some dimensions than the 9mm, it may very well rupture when fired due to lack of support (not fitting snuly into the chamber is a bad thing). This will certainly tie up your gun, and may well damage the chamber, the extractor, and various important pieces and parts.

This problem arises every deer-hunting season, when folks who shhot oinly once a year get confused and load their rifles with the wrong ammunition (say, .280 Remington in a 30-06). You should make it a habit to carry ONLY the correct ammunition for the firearm you are currently using.

Your question about how to dispose of unwanted ammunition is really an excellent one- NEVER discard it in the trash, or into a dumpster or landfill. I recommend taking it to your friendly local gunstore , and asking the proprietor to dispose of it for you (or sell it, whichever comes first!) Do not attempt to remove the bullets from the cartidges using household tools in order to render the ammunition "safe"- this will almost guarantee a bad accident- and I have seen a few of those. By the same token, burning it is extremely hazardous to everyone in the vicinity.

[Shooter 2.5]

You couldn't be more wrong with that.

For some reason, the .357 is on the top of the heap when it comes to "One Shot Stops." That's with different ammunition of the Magic Bullet kind. Someone finally figured out the police needed a semi-automatic with the same stopping power so they copied the ballistics. Muzzle energy with the .357 Magnum factory loads range from 410 to 550. The Sig ranges from 445 to 530.

[JRandomFreeper]

so firing a .380 in a 9mmP chamber could cause a case rupture and damage to the gun and your hand.

You quote from the range officer that chewed me out. I did luck out. I always check ammo now. Always.

/john

[cinFLA]

didn't have the "lightning-bolt" effect of the 357 magnum when it hits a perp.

This same "crack" on discharge also tends to make your neighbors take a break on the firing range till you finish.

[JRandomFreeper]

I love these threads.

Me too, except for the obligitory "I was stupid" story that I have to tell.

/john

[RecentConvert]

"shouldn't .38 and .380 be "close"?"

they are the same numeric value. If I remember correctly the "0" in .380 is called a significant value. This means that the third digit to the right of the decimal point in .380 is significant in the calculations and should not be omitted. So, if the number turns out to be .381 or .386 or .380, the "1," "6" or "0" should not be omitted.

I could be wrong on all this of course. I only have a GED diploma.

[BenLurkin]

Ask your gun dealer about shooting regular .38 wad-cutters for targets but keeping Federal Hydra-Shok hollow points for"self-defense".

Ask if even with a small frame five shot pistol, "carrying" the +P for emergency use. It has been done.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

J Random Freeper mentioned one of the really bad things that can happen- if you load the wrong ammunition, and it is small enough to get into the barrel and allow another round to be loaded behind it in the chamber and fired, you are most likely going to wind up with a badly damaged gun (if you are lucky- you could lose fingers, or an eye).

I once saw an M-1 rifle from which someone had attempted to fire a rifle grenade- but used a regular 30-06 cartridge rather than a blank. Pretty impressive- I think that qualified as a "bore obstruction", all right!