Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: captain11; Arthur McGowan; Physicist
There is no begged question here. But it is necessary to ponder the question: If EVERYTHING that exists is contingent on something else, would there be ANYTHING?

Dead-on perfect, Arthur, and of course the answer is no. This was precisely the point I made in this post, where I described infinite void as the ultimate equilibrium, with no reason to change, ever (save God).

There are two (well, three; no, four) problems with this line of reasoning:
  1. If everything is contingent, then there can be no transition from nothing to something. But if there was always "something", then there's no problem.
  2. Contingency is a concept that depends on the existence of time. But the Big Bang model says that time itself began at the Big Bang. Exactly like how "North-ness" begins at the South Pole, and "before" that point there simply is no more "South-ness" available to be found: Keep walking straight and you start going North again.
  3. On a quantum level, the universe - even the void of space - is foamy. Subatomic particles poof into & out of existence everywhere, constantly. From what (little) I understand of this, these particles' appearance & disappearance don't seem to be contingent on anything.
  4. Even if there was some kind of First Cause, there is no reason to think It must be a person of some kind.

275 posted on 02/16/2003 2:54:31 PM PST by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 265 | View Replies ]


To: jennyp
4. Even if there was some kind of First Cause, there is no reason to think It must be a person of some kind.

Jesus the Messiah, from John 15:

This is my command: Love each other. If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.'

278 posted on 02/16/2003 2:58:27 PM PST by unspun ("If men were angels, no government would be necessary." - James Madison)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 275 | View Replies ]

To: jennyp
If everything is contingent, then there can be no transition from nothing to something. But if there was always "something", then there's no problem.

Very good. And of course if the big bang theory is true, then something has always existed.

281 posted on 02/16/2003 3:04:19 PM PST by beavus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 275 | View Replies ]

To: jennyp
The concept of contingency does not depend on time.

And yes, there IS a reason to conclude that the First Cause is a person--because WE are persons. Nothing can give what it does not have.

332 posted on 02/16/2003 9:02:27 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 275 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson