Bethlehem Steel Collapse Leaves Retired Workers Scrambling for Benefits (95,000 people)

Miami Herald ^ | Sun, Feb. 09, 2003 | DAVID B. CARUSO

[Paulus Invictus]

The unions opened the door to foreign steel makers and closed down the US companies, one at a time. Out here in the West, we see a few small, non-union steel companies thriving, making specialized steel products, some made from steel from wrecked cars. It seems to be a trend--unionize and go bankrupt or specialize, be non-union and survive. Is that a good plan or not?

[EverOnward]

A cursory google search on steel dumping will clearly point out why our US steel industry hasn't got a fighting chance against the Asian, Russian, South American and Europoean (mainly British Steel) countries who are unloading their steel here at unfair and uncompetitive rates. The FTC is more likely to rule against the US as for it. The end result is the bankruptcy of our industrial base.

[MonroeDNA]

"Don't play who works harder."

Ok, I won't.

"Have you ever lived for two weeks on Ramon Noodles (only 15cents a package on sale) because you couldn't risk even bouncing a check to pay for groceries. If my husband bounced a check he not only got in trouble at the bank, he had to face his seargent the next day."

OK, I will. Make up your mind.

Don't assume you're the only ex-military folks here. I know all about the bounced checks thing.

Don't know what your husband did, but I was freezing my butt off on telephone poles in Kunsan, about the time we were both eating ramon noodles.

Ever been underground in mosquito infested land. no AC, for $5 an hour? Ever ride your bike through the snow in Michigan winter in a McDonalds uniform? Ever live in your car?

Thanks to working for non-union companies, and planning for my OWN retirement, I put in my hard knocks, put myself through school, and now make artificial hearts for a living.

[MonroeDNA]

"If the company failed to put inflation measures into their plan, that's their problem, not the retired workers'"

Now it is theirs. Because they think like you.

[DoughtyOne]

It doesn't surprise me. They've basicly been using our tax dollars against us for at least one decade in absolute earnest, perhaps two sortof haphazard. One has to wonder what the hell happened to the policies that saw our nation become second to none? We've abandoned them and are collapsing in on ourselves.

[Mulder]

The workers were promised certain benefits in exchange for giving their productive years and loyalty to the company.

Some people here think that you can't commit fraud if you wear an expensive 3-piece suit, have a fancy title, and spend your "working hours" on the golf course and at hundred dollar dinners.

[TopDog2]

labor is such a small portion of the cost in steel that you would be a fool to believe what you just said.

Got any figures to back this up?

Labor is typically the largest cost in ANY industry.

The labor costs for a ton of steel are around $13. That figure was in the newpaper today. It didn't come from the union either. It came from a VP at Nucor.

BTW, the pension and healthcare benefits that retirees used to enjoy are called deferred compensation. Exactly the same as the stock options that some dot-coms used to hand out like candy.

From what I can see, it's not the workers that screwed up or even screwed the company. This mess was caused by the same thing that is responsible for 90% of the problems in business...management.

[Normally a Lurker]

It was no free ride.----No socialism involved! The company agreed to it! The government and you did not pay for it. Can you understand that?

Your may be right re the health plan, but there's a small matter of $3.2 billion that we taxpayers are apparently going to be stuck with. As the article says:

The move, seen as essential to the company's bid to sell its assets to International Steel Group, followed news in December that Bethlehem Steel's pension plan was underfunded by $3.2 billion and would be turned over to a government agency.

[Mulder]

Now it is theirs. Because they think like you.

If I make a promise to pay my mortgage company X dollars 25 years from now, and fail to follow through with it, how is that any different from a company promising to pay it's retirees X dollars 25 years from now and not honoring it?

[wcbtinman]

"The company paid the premiums..."

Then why is the pension fund minus over 3 BILLION dollars?? By whom and how was this accomplished?

I'm not defending the workers whining about their lost pensions, but somebody is 3 billion richer than the employees. And wasn't it their money?

It sounds to me like the company learned it's accounting practices from the US govt.

[DoughtyOne]

Paul, I have no idea what the wages were at the plants you mention. I do not think it's a good idea to set up a business where the employee cannot make enough to support themselves and set up their future. If we're talking about steel mills, we're not talking about a minimum wage job. I do think there is a big difference.

I'm not in favor of employees forcing pay and benefits up beyond reason, but if we're talking about an industry like steel, it should either support the employee, his family and their future, or be allowed to close.

If our government is not going to implement policies that see families able to support themselves and their futures, what has this nation come to? This is about as far from the American Dream as you can get.

[TopDog2]

Whoever in their right mind would think that charging $6 a month for benefits which costs probably hundreds a month is reasonable?

I think that $6 figure is a mistake. That is probably the prescription drug co-pay. The premium runs around $150/month for the insured and spouse and around $300 if there are any dependents.

[TheSpottedOwl]

See that's what really makes me mad...the corporate vultures who walk away from the wreckage with big, fat golden parachutes. The workers/investors/etc get jacked. I just cannot understand why our own government has spent 40 years deliberately undermining our economy, and turning a blind eye to the fraud that goes on.

Oh, and there's nothing like calling Hewlett Packard for the hundreth time, and getting someone from India to answer your call. At least I can understand a Canadian accent :/

[MonroeDNA]

If the company can't pay, because their own union drove them out of business, and they had to declare bankruptcy for it, then where is the money going to come from?

There IS no money! The union drove them broke!

The UNION drove them BROKE! There IS no MONEY!

Sorry to shout, but where is the money going to come from?
The money bush out back?

[the_daug]

Bankruptcy?

[MonroeDNA]

Cite your sources, please.

[A Patriot Son]

Please see post 79. And Also I would like to add that American steel producers have never had the the profit levels becuase of the massive flood of US financed foriegn imports of steel to build the modern plant they needed to.

Without the US government financed International Socialism they gould have built newer plants and saved hundreds of thousand of high-paying jobs.

But as though that's not enough the US government has went all-out since the seventies to destroy them via EPA, OSHA and other regulations, fines, taxes etc.

With the all-out assault waged against the US steel producers by the US government and foreign governments it is amazing that any are still in business. Thank God American workers still have the highest produtivity in the world!!! Bar none!!!
Though many of the Anti-American/tax-Free-Trade-at-any-price-with-China crowd fail to ever admit tha fact....

[Mulder]

The UNION drove them BROKE!

Yeah.. blame the union. It can't possibly be the fault of management.

[Mulder]

the corporate vultures who walk away from the wreckage with big, fat golden parachutes

After spending only 2 years with the company.. most of that on the golf course.

[codercpc]

This is my last reply to you.

As I said, he also works for a non-union company, and we too are saving quite a bit for our retirement. I was the one who also went to school to better our future. So I think we are living similar lives. I just got angry when you said that about the free ride because of one of his benefits.

To tell the truth I am also a little pissy today because we figured out our taxes for the year, and although over the past year I recieved a huge raise (I took a new job with a new company) we are now paying so much more in taxes that it was a little disappointing:(

So lets be friends and agree to disagree on this point of health insurance. It for us is a benefit (which don't worry we are not counting on for our retirement). But I do admit feeling sorry for the 81 year old man who work his whole life for his insurance, and now is told that he is losing it. It's one thing to plan for your retirement and save for a nice life of relaxation, only to find out that a huge chunk of that long saved money must now go for health care expenses that he never factored in.