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To: Valin
When I ask each legislator what he'd give up to achieve consensus, fidgeting ensues. Would Hornstein allow citizens to conceal loaded guns? Not likely. Would Kohls embrace light-rail transit for suburban commuters? No way. Kohls even doubts the premise of compromise. "We don't need to give up anything," he says. "We're now the mainstream. The problem is a government we can't afford. We need to examine from top to bottom what government needs to be."

This is a telling response and as I see it part of the problem.

First of all, what is the problem with allowing citizens to carry concealed loaded guns? There should be more emphasis on what it means to be a citizen, and the rights and privileges (and responsibilities) associated with that. Not permitting citizens to carry concealed means that they are not trusted!

On the other hand, what the heck is wrong with light-rail transit for densely populated areas? You think maybe the interstate system which carries the goods via semi-trucks and is a fundamental component of our economy was paid for out of local taxes? WRONG! Federal tax dollars paid for it. The fundamental infrastructure of our country - interstates, railroads, and airlines - are all funded heavily by federal tax dollars. When you get in your pickup and drive to Wal-mart, you are driving on roads supported by federal dollars. In densely populated areas it makes no sense for everyone to drive. There are cities (like Chicago) where the CTA and Metra carry a million people every day, and that means they aren't on the roads. So what the heck is wrong with compromises?

Personally, I'd like to see us all saying "I'll give you some of what you want (carry concealed) in exchange for some of what you want (divert some federal dollars from rural interstates to city light rail systems.)

Which is more constructive than having people screaming "Bushie's a warmongering monkey" at people shouting back "Hitlery Clintonista is the anti-Christ!"

17 posted on 02/09/2003 10:15:10 AM PST by dark_lord
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To: dark_lord
First of all, what is the problem with allowing citizens to carry concealed loaded guns? There should be more emphasis on what it means to be a citizen, and the rights and privileges (and responsibilities) associated with that. Not permitting citizens to carry concealed means that they are not trusted!

Frankly, the right to carry has already been settled by the second amendment. Still, some of the statists would rather disarm - its easier to move a crowd of unarmed, defenseless sheep than an angry mob of disgruntled - and armed - subjects who are intent on not being pushed around.

On the other hand, what the heck is wrong with light-rail transit for densely populated areas? You think maybe the interstate system which carries the goods via semi-trucks and is a fundamental component of our economy was paid for out of local taxes? WRONG! Federal tax dollars paid for it. The fundamental infrastructure of our country - interstates, railroads, and airlines - are all funded heavily by federal tax dollars. When you get in your pickup and drive to Wal-mart, you are driving on roads supported by federal dollars. In densely populated areas it makes no sense for everyone to drive. There are cities (like Chicago) where the CTA and Metra carry a million people every day, and that means they aren't on the roads. So what the heck is wrong with compromises?

Nothing is wrong with light rail in populated areas as long as the rest of us don't have to pay for it. The interstate highway system benefits all who travel as well as all who buy products. It also serves the purpose of allowing fast movement of military if necessary (and that was part of the system's intent). It has a national benefit and thus is paid for mostly on the federal level. Local light rail, on the other hand, benefits only the few that live in the area it exists and will actually ride it.

Personally, I'd like to see us all saying "I'll give you some of what you want (carry concealed) in exchange for some of what you want (divert some federal dollars from rural interstates to city light rail systems.)

Although give-and-take is part of politics, constitutionally protected rights should not be traded for someone's tax dollars, particularly when that someone will not likely enjoy the benefits of the bureaucracy that is created.

Which is more constructive than having people screaming "Bushie's a warmongering monkey" at people shouting back "Hitlery Clintonista is the anti-Christ!"

Well, the former is a lie and the latter is true! What can I say? :^)

19 posted on 02/09/2003 12:51:55 PM PST by meyer
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To: dark_lord
On the other hand, what the heck is wrong with light-rail transit for densely populated areas?

Nothing, assuming
1 It's a densely populated area(which the twin cities is not).
2 The people are willing to pay for it(our choo-choo train is going to cost $20.00 pre rider...one way)

I could go on about the "joys" of lightrail.
22 posted on 02/09/2003 5:01:03 PM PST by Valin (Age and Deceit, beat youth and skill)
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