Posted on 02/07/2003 2:16:24 PM PST by Utah Girl
The zenophobic nationals of Croatia & Dalmatia (such as the writer of this hate piece) pretty much come from the white trash/cracker portion of society. Like poor zenophobes everywhere the HDZ and HSP used racist arguments to explain away their followers low social-economic standing.
Now after 12 years of being in control, and Croatia-Dalmatia poorer than it was in 1988.......the zenophobic crackers in the HDZ & HSP have no more one else to blame....hence the desperate confused tone of the screed UtahGirl posted.
It is very sad what the HDZ & HSP did to Croatia-Dalmatia. Unemployment is stuck at 23-23%. foreign debt is $13-14 Billion and rising. Toruist revenues are 1/2 their 1988 levels (in real dollars). The best and the brightest have left and show no signs of coming back. What little industry exists in the hands of absentee owners.
The HDZ & HSP offered their followers a ez-pass into the EU & prosperity back in 1989-90. What those followers got was a one way ticket into poverty & oblivion. It is tragic.
I suggest you read a little more history than follow Star Trek episodes. Serb have never done certain things that pretty much define Croats and their statehood (it sure ain't the language they borrowed, or the way they cross). That is a fact. Review the history of the Croatian "Rights" movement, founded by Ante Starcevic in the mid 19th century, or his successor Josip Frank.
Find a parallel to them on the Serb side, in both the "program" and political influence, and their realization, and then maybe you could equate the two. Until then, any such equation is highly prejudical.
It's not just balck-and-white, Hoplite. That's in another movie I don't watch -- Star Wars and History according to Steven Spielberg. That way, even Elmer Fudd can "understand" what's going on.
Happy weekend to you too.
Talk about limited...
VRN
Correct. That was also one of the roots of the Serbo-Croat conflict in the making. Whereas Serbs were used a free yeoman and farmer-wariors, exempt from taxes, since the Thirty Years War (17th century), working directly for the Habsburg monarch. Croatia, although nominally still a "state," was in effect a province dominated by Austria or Hungary. The official language in Croatia was either Latin, German or Hungarian, depending on the time period.
Because of their different social status, and because many a Serb in Austry-Hungary was a professional, it is understandable that their political agenda did not necessarily coincide with that of the predominantly serf Croatian populus. This caused great resentment, seeing Serbs as "privileged" and Croats as downtrodden. I see it as just plain envy that grew into a genocidal hate embodied in the "program" of Ante Starcevic and Josip Frank, their progeny, the so-called Independent State of Croatia 1941-1945, which continues to this day.
It's the intellect that's proportional to the state of their native language. The book is indeed very short.
There is nothing defensive about murdering civilians on a personal, face-to-face basis, and there is nothing defensive about meeting with your opposite to carve up a third country using the same murderous techniques your proxies have been subjecting each other's ethnic kin to inside your own borders.
I got the picture - I just see it much differently than you: A people divided by religion, some of whom are more interested in perpetuating their differences than emphasizing their bonds and doing unto those others very unlike they would have done unto themselves.
You are correct about the serfdom part.....In Croatia, Dalmatia, & Slavonia some 80% of the Latin population were Serfs until 1848. On the other hand, the Orthodox population were either Yeoman Farmers or Professionals. This tendancy carried through to the late 20th century. The Orthodox population of Croatia & Dalmatia always were better educated and owned more hard assets than the Latin population.
The zenophobic nationals of Croatia & Dalmatia (such as the writer of this hate piece) pretty much come from the white trash/cracker portion of society. Like poor zenophobes everywhere the HDZ and HSP used racist arguments to explain away their followers low social-economic standing.
Now after 12 years of being in control, and Croatia-Dalmatia poorer than it was in 1988.......the zenophobic crackers in the HDZ & HSP have no more one else to blame....hence the desperate confused tone of the screed UtahGirl posted.
It is very sad what the HDZ & HSP did to Croatia-Dalmatia. Unemployment is stuck at 23-23%. foreign debt is $13-14 Billion and rising. Toruist revenues are 1/2 their 1988 levels (in real dollars). The best and the brightest have left and show no signs of coming back. What little industry exists in the hands of absentee owners.
The HDZ & HSP offered their followers a ez-pass into the EU & prosperity back in 1989-90. What those followers got was a one way ticket into poverty & oblivion. It is tragic.
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Ha, why am I not surprised SuperCroat? The correct spelling is exaggerated. But I won't call you a peasant the way you called branicap a peasant (seljak) for misspelling something.
I am ,also,gratefull for a free spelling lessons from you."serbs,serbian,propoganda..."!A question SuperProfessor:how do you spell personal names?With first capital letter,ie."Croat(s)" or small letter,ie. "serb(s)"?Don`t worry,I`ll by a English-Ustashe Croatian Dictionary and find myself!Just in case,I`ll spell serb(s)-serbian accordingly,in order not to offend your sensitive Ustasha soul.I don`t want you to get angry!
FatBoy,let`s make one thing clear:nationality has nothing to do with political affiliation,is that clear to you?I have a Croatian mother,bless her,but her father was a partisan from 1941 and fought your Ustashe scum.And,yes,I hate everything that Ustashe and your ilk stand for!And,I am right:one look on your Ustasha web site,Mr. Jurica ,makes me puke!Just as much as KKK,White Supremacists,British National Party or German Neo Nazis!A fine company you have.
About your post:
Dear boy,unlike you,some of the posters on FR had the oportunity to live through Tito`s era and can compare the situation on the basis of personal expirience,not rabid rant of a priests and WWII war fascists/criminals who managed to escape to Canada!Like Sushak&Co.
I am glad to see that Tudjman was a "traitor of Croatian people" for admiting the genocide your ancestors commited in WWII!Even Tudjman wasn`t good enough for you?!It must be that he was brainwashed by the serbs(see how quickly I learn propper spelling) while he was living 20+ years in his general`s vila in Belgrade!
I,also,see that the sole cause of Croatian economic problems today are :serbs!Fair enough.
But,how can it be?No major Croatian industrial facility was destroyed or damaged in 91-95 war.War was over in the winter 92.It was limited to Krajina,which was,mainly rural area.No rafinery,petro-chemical complex,steel mills,railroad or railway station,shipyard or power plant was damaged or destroyed!99% of hotels are intact.So,is it a serbian fault that no one answers your tenders for hotels ,published in Financial Times?Is it serbian fault that you have to lay off 50% of work force in Sisak Steel Mill?Is it serbian fault that agriculture is going through rough time?Is it serbian fault that about $4 bilion was embezzled and loundered during Tudjman&Co era(IMF and Interpol report)?Ect,ect,ect...
Of course,it is,what else can it be?All we have to do is read the article above!And your posts.
Dupe,I have demonstrated that I can improve my spelling.Sad thing is that nothing can be done with your brain and your ability to think out of boundaries of your Ustashe dogma and pure hatred!Brain transplant is,still ,in it`s infancy so it`s going to be a long wait for you!
But,genetics and cloning are something else and offer some interesting posibilities.So,why don`t you start a campaign on your Ustasha web site for the cloning and resurection of your beloved Ante Pavelich!?Go to Argentina and dig out his corpse,and just like in Jurassic Park you can clone another one!That,your kind of "true Croats" can,again,have a propper leader for Croatia!
I know what I will donate for that campaign....A big one!Srpski!
PS.Young obese man,don`t you understand that everybody ,without exception ,on FR thinks that you are nothing but a fascist idiot?That with every post you say much more about yourself than about other posters or subject?Haven`t you noticed that ,even anti-Serb lobby on FR,stays away from you because you`re an embarassement?
The Croatian nationalist "agenda" started with Ante Starcevic (pron. Anteh Starchevich), and his party of Rights (Prava) whose members are known as the Rightists (no pun intended), or Pravashi, founded in the second half of the 19th century. The party is still alive and well in Croatia.
Since most of you are not familiar with the "work" of a man, in today's Croatia officially known as the "Father of the Nation," perhaps a short introduction into his "agenda" will clarify what we are dealing with. Ante Starecevic (1869):
"[Serbs] are the race of slaves, beasts worse than ever. There are three levels of perfection: that of the animal, that of comprehension, and that of reason. Slavo-Serbs have not quite reached the first level, and cannot rise above it. They have no conscience, they don't know to read as humans, they are not teachable..."
It should be pointed out that at the time he wrote this, there has been no conflict between Serbs and Croats, no genocidal warfare, no atrocities. They lived next to each other in diferent social strata. To create such a monstrous "philosophy" bears witness to a pathological hatred that is absolutely disproportionate to the offense, whatever that may have been. It is a genocidal, racist credo borne out of plain jealousy carried to an extreme.
Unfortunately, in Croatia, such pahtological way of thinking is seen in successive generations. In addition to Starcevic, the second Croatian national hero is Josip Frank (pron. Yosip Frunk), the 20th century flagbearer of geocidal Serbophobia.
The successor to these was none other than Ante Pavelic (pron. Pavelich), the leader of the so-called Independent State of Croatia, in 1941, an ally of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, who made genocide against Serbs, Jews and Gypsies official policy. In the case of Serbs, a "final solution" was defined as the program consisting of exterminating 1/3, converting to Roman Catholicism of 1/3 and expelling 1/3 of all Serbs (about 20% of the population). The first part was carried on in some 2 dozen concentration camps set up by the regime.
Today, Pavelic is revered as the hero of the nation, the one who gave Croatia its long-sought independence, which in itself is an oxymoron.
The spirit of Starcevic, Frank and Pavelic exist to this day in Croatia, represented in different levels of the Croatian society and politics, as well as in the Ustasha, Rightist, and Frankish parties.
Consistent with their "philosophy," their supporters will stoop to such symbolic gestures as to spell "Serb" with a lower-case letter "s," because anything else would be "elevating" those "who cannot read as humans" to a level of humanity.
With an openly anti-Serb Washington policy in the last dozen or so years, Croatian nationalists enjoyed an "open season" with their Serbophobic thinking. They have not yet recovered fully from the post-climactic oblivion of expelling almost the remainder of the Serb population of Croatia (which is now at about 4% after some have actually returned!), and with the aid and blessing of their friends in Washington.
So, it is natural that they have come to believe that Serbophobia is their "right" as much as it is their way of life.
There is one funny thing about that intellectual monster,Starscevich:his mother was a Serb!I have read it a few times but,at the moment,I don`t have a particular data.Can anyone confirm this(or deny)?I believe that it is true.I`ll do some research later.
Anyway,if it is true it fits the profile:Hitler(allegedly) had some Jewish blood...J.E. Hoover hated homosexuals with vengance,during office ours.In the evening,at home,he used to dress like woman and sleep with his lifetime buttler!
In any case,I hope that your contribution to this thread will be appreciated as it deserves.
But,don`t expect that this SuperPrkno Hercegovacko will,or that he will understand.
It must be that he has some Ser....oooooops!I mean,serbian blood.I almost made a spelling mistake,again!LOOOOOOOOL!
After all,serbs are "unteachable",nesce pais?
So is our Toronto Ustasha.
BTW,whwre is our poster,UtahGirl?It looks like she doesn`t like the way this discussion is going.Or she thinks that article is true!?
Yes,VRN very true!Our Parrot friend gets a case of acute verbal diarrhoea any time we discuss Serbs,but when you have an blatant case of HDZ Manifesto in Washington Times,he eather tries to implicate Serbs with this BS or,gues what?Talks about Star Treck?????????
Just as SuperDude is swearing at me for making a small spelling mistake????????
The only difference between these two individuals is that Parrot has better vocabulary and a bit more intelligence!
All the best,VRN
Sorry, Hop -- live by the rank-out, die by the rank-out.
Otherwise he may be unable to recover and return to FR, thus depriving us of further entertainment.
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