Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

NASA: DEBRIS NOT TO BLAME
New York Post ^ | 2/06/03 | ANDY GELLER and FRANCI RICHARDSON

Posted on 02/06/2003 2:30:17 AM PST by kattracks

Edited on 05/26/2004 5:11:34 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

February 6, 2003 -- NASA yesterday all but ruled out the possibility that the shuttle Columbia disaster was caused by a chunk of foam insulation that struck the left wing during liftoff.

Agency experts are now focusing on other theories - including the possibility the wing's heat-protecting tiles were damaged by orbiting space junk.


(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-54 next last
To: dtel
This reminds me of the adage "don't overlook the elephant sitting in your living room." I agree it is important to look and be sure. I think a 2.67 pound object hitting a fragile surface at Mach 2 is the elephant to not overlook. Delicate tiles. Critical wing area (landing gear door). Etc.

The elephant in this case is a NASA issue. Finding a space junk cause would be pure accident - creating plausible deniability.
21 posted on 02/06/2003 4:56:58 AM PST by IamConservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Fitzcarraldo
Is it just me, or does the tail look warped in the hi-res version of that picture?
22 posted on 02/06/2003 5:00:13 AM PST by Jonah Hex
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Jonah Hex
Looks like the camera is to the right of center - giving some profile to the right side.
23 posted on 02/06/2003 5:06:45 AM PST by IamConservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: dtel
They knew that there were problems with impact damage from foam and/or ice tearing off.

They knew that there was some amount of damage that could be tolerated.

They knew that there was an amount of damage that , dependent upon location and depth, would possibly doom the re-entry.

They knew that in order to initiate abort (acknowledged to be risky , but safer that re-entry with compromised heat-shielding), the damage would have to be assessed, real-time, pre-orbit.

And finally, I understand they knew that significant damage to the tiles would be indicated by white areas where the hard surface had been shed.

The simple and obvious solution is to place monitoring cameras on the tank-struts, facing the underside of the vehicle, hard-wired to the cockpit, and visible to the ommander and pilot, who can then make the decision to continue to orbit or abort, based upon something better than guess-work and wishful thinking. The determination then rests where it should: with the commander and pilot.

They don't know for certain what brought the thing down; and because of this goof, we may never know.

Can anyone tell me that the solution was beyond the reasonable consideration or discovery of the NASA Brain Trust?

Can anyone tell me that cameras were impossible? I've seen film of launches, taken by just such "fisheye" cameras, that were mounted on the exterior of Saturn rockets, right in the slipstream.

Can anyone tell me that this kind of mistake would have been given a pass by the early NASA pilots?

Bad. Very bad.

With a little foresight, this thing might have been avoided, the crew and vehilce saved, if indeed the tiles were the cause. At least the commander and pilot would have been given a fair shot at recovering themselves.

I don't think it matters a whit what the cause was, with regard to the poor quality of mission ops.

Sprites, elfs, and metiorites are acts of God; the fact that they couldn't assess the space-worthiness of the vehicle--in light of what was known before-hand--is, I think, inexcusable.

One last thing: a few are discounting the force with which 'exfoliated' foam and ice could have on the tiles because of the relative velocity and short distance to the wing. But I want you to think about the last time you were doing 65 on the highway, and a sheet of ice lifted from the hood of your car and smacked the windshield. Very short distance; same relative velocity; big bang, and sometimes a cracked windshield.

24 posted on 02/06/2003 5:09:59 AM PST by dasboot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
"Every time they've lost seven people - and for what?" said Christopher Corrigan, 42.

So my great-great-grandkids can go on vacation on the Moon or on Mars, dummy!

In case you fail to realize, mankind lost a whole lot of folks developing boats that go to sea; now we think nothing of taking a cruise across the oceans of the world. Mankind lost a whole lot of folks developing planes that fly through th air; now we think nothing of taking a flight across the country for business and vacations in foreign lands.

Thank God for Men and Women like the Shuttle 14.

25 posted on 02/06/2003 5:10:50 AM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: brityank
"....the shuttle 14."

Yes; and in their memory, we must press the agency to take better care of its flyboys and girls.

26 posted on 02/06/2003 5:25:07 AM PST by dasboot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
I publicly defer to you advanced knowledge of physics.
However even 1/10 of 93,000 ft/lbs. could do serious damage.
27 posted on 02/06/2003 5:29:29 AM PST by Falcon4.0
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Check6
What's needed is an independent investigation. Maybe the NTSB should take over from after hearing this. Looks to me like Bush has more house cleaning to do.
28 posted on 02/06/2003 5:36:46 AM PST by FireTrack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: dasboot
I fully agree. We don't need to go off half-cocked, though; getting all of the evidence, isolating events and time-lines, coordinating anomalies, et al; will take time and patience -- something not evident from some of the posters I've seen so far. "A lie travels half-way round the world before the truth gets its pants on." I do hope that NASA learned from the Challenger and doesn't try to withhold information that could help resolve this tragedy and enhance the future safety of other missions and crews.
29 posted on 02/06/2003 5:40:40 AM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Falcon4.0
Indeed. Just check out the kinetic energy of one common rifle round.

150 grain 30-06 at muzzle, 2970 ft/sec has 2938 ft-lb of kinetic energy, and at 400 yards and about 1900 ft/sec, still has 1232 ft-lb of kinetic energy.

But, to be fair, the foam-to-insulation situation is tougher to cipher. Each of the items can lose energy to deformation, or to cutting (sharp edge might slice off a piece of tile rather than crush it), so we have to consider the shape of the impacting object; the angle of impact, relative hardness (in a bullet-to-tissue event, tissue loses, but in a bullet-to-steel plate event, the bullet loses), and many other factors.

I think the indications all point to increased drag on the left wing, and hope that we will someday have information that permits us to have some certainty regarding the cause of this disaster.

30 posted on 02/06/2003 5:42:33 AM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: FireTrack
Bush has, in the past, increased the budgets of agencies from which he plans to demand accountability. Both he and his dad are pilots. They know what's going on. Fer shurrrr. Here's to opening that can o' whoopass.
31 posted on 02/06/2003 5:43:13 AM PST by dasboot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: FireTrack
If I recall correctly, the NTSB is involved in vehicle reconstruction.
32 posted on 02/06/2003 5:44:34 AM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: dasboot
I hope your theory is correct. I don't believe in arbitrarily placing blame until the facts are known. That said, NASA ain't looking too good right now.
33 posted on 02/06/2003 5:54:47 AM PST by FireTrack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
I think they should take the lead.
34 posted on 02/06/2003 5:57:06 AM PST by FireTrack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
A question:

I have been reading comparisons between the DynaSoar and the shuttle. The DynaSoar was to have used a "skip/glide" re-entry regimen to dissipate the heat of its return over several additional orbits, as opposed to the shuttle's all-at-once drop to the runway.

Would this skip/glide have been, or can it be, a contingency for heat-shield impaired craft? Does the uncertainty of making it to an adequate runway automatically rule this out? Can a shuttle manage, with any degree of survivability, to perform a ditch in the water at 200mph? (Assuming, of course that THE DUFUSSES WILL PROVIDE FOR ACTUAL ASSESSMENT OF THE VEHICLE.)

35 posted on 02/06/2003 5:59:30 AM PST by dasboot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
Absolutely, the scent of CYA is in the air.
36 posted on 02/06/2003 6:04:59 AM PST by Brett66
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Falcon4.0
By my calculations of 1/2 mass X velocity squared, the 2.67lbs foam with an impact speed of 1500 feet per second gives you a force of 3375000lbs or 1687.5 tons of force.

Ouch, as mentioned above by another poster, that's the kinetic energy equation, not the force of impact.

Force = mass times acceleration. The total kinetic energy is irrelevant -- only the change in kinetic energy, the acceleration or deceleration, is relevant. That would be highly influenced by strike angle.

37 posted on 02/06/2003 6:37:35 AM PST by jlogajan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
They have already ruled out a cause before the pieces of wreckage are gathered?

You know they haven't ruled out anything yet. Why do you tinfoilers insist on making up lies???

38 posted on 02/06/2003 6:38:49 AM PST by jlogajan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: IamConservative
I think a 2.67 pound object hitting a fragile surface at Mach 2 is the elephant to not overlook.

Remember that the foam was traveling at the same speed as everything else until the moment it detached from the tank less than about 1/7 second before impact. It wasn't like a relatively motionless bird being flown into by a 747. Also, consider which would do more damage to you: a big chunk of foam that weighed 2.67 pounds dropped onto your head from a height of, say, 10 feet, or a 2.67 pound steel ball bearing.
39 posted on 02/06/2003 6:57:24 AM PST by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: jlogajan
Yea, sorry I forgot my weight to mass conversion.
40 posted on 02/06/2003 7:14:00 AM PST by Falcon4.0
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-54 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson