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World Court Tells U.S. to Freeze Mexican Executions
Reuters ^ | 2/05/03 | Abigail Levene

Posted on 02/05/2003 1:14:48 PM PST by kattracks

THE HAGUE (Reuters) - The World Court ordered the United States Wednesday to stay executions of three Mexicans -- two on death row in President Bush's state of Texas -- and reserved the right to intervene in dozens more cases.

Mexico took Washington to the International Court of Justice at the Hague last month, saying more than 50 of its nationals on death row should get retrials because U.S. authorities breached an international treaty by failing to tell them of their rights to consular help after their arrests.

With the whole case likely to be lengthy, Mexico asked the highest U.N. court to instruct urgent stays of execution for 51 men. Judges ruled that just three were at imminent risk, though said it might order similar stays for others "if appropriate" before issuing its final judgment in the proceedings.

Mexico's court action reflects deep disquiet among some of Washington's closest allies over capital punishment, which has led to protests from leading European states and Pope John Paul.

The United States and Japan are the only rich industrialized nations to execute convicted criminals. The last person executed in the European Union was guillotined in France in 1977.

The case is the highest level bout of a long-running fight between the United States and its poorer southern neighbor over the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations.

The international treaty obliges local authorities to inform an arrested person without delay of his right to speak to consular officials from his country.

"I wouldn't look at it as a defeat or a victory," U.S. ambassador to the Netherlands Clifford Sobel told Reuters after the decision. "The order clearly does not address the merits of the case."

TWO DECADES ON DEATH ROW

Mexico wants retrials for all its 54 nationals -- four of them mentally ill or retarded -- who were sentenced to death in 10 states in the United States. Three of the 54 were condemned in Illinois, however, where the state governor last month commuted all death sentences in his state.

"The United States of America must take all measures necessary to ensure Mr. Cesar Roberto Fierro Reyna, Mr. Roberto Moreno Ramos and Mr. Osvaldo Torres Aguilera are not executed pending final judgment in these proceedings," Court President Gilbert Guillaume said in the binding order Wednesday.

The three men -- two of whom were being held in Texas and the third in Oklahoma -- "are at risk of execution in the coming months or possibly even weeks," Guillaume said.

Fierro Reyna has been on death row since 1980.

"The decision is welcome, certainly. It comes in the line we have asked for and it certainly reinforces international law," said Santiago Onate, Mexico's ambassador to the Netherlands.

"We are looking for full redress. That we haven't had now. What we have now is...an order from the court that will prevent any execution until the court decides on the merits," Onate told reporters after the sitting.

The United States argued that Mexico neither proved its rights under the Vienna Convention were harmed nor that there was an urgent need for the emergency injunction.

Such an injunction would interfere with the United States' sovereign right to administer its criminal justice system and would mark an unwarranted intrusion by the court into U.S. affairs, it argued at a World Court hearing on January 21.



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
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To: Buckeye Bomber
I posted this earlier. Does anyone ever read previous posts?

Well, as to that, see my post #43. I provide a link to the text of the VIENNA CONVENTION ON CONSULAR RELATIONS AND OPTIONAL PROTOCOLS of 1963. So what? Where in article 5 does is say anything about US law enforcement personnel being required to contact an alien's consul either before or immediately after arresting them? Nowhere. We are merely required to permit them to have such communication if they request it. None of which is really the point.

The point is -- what treaty did we sign that gives the "World Court" authority over us? The Vienna Treaty does not.

81 posted on 02/05/2003 5:49:39 PM PST by dark_lord
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To: Buckeye Bomber
One KEY point, the Gov. Org. of Mexico is ACTIVELY supporting their illegal emigrants!
They actually issue them supplies, such as food, water, blankets, and maps for the trip!

They have set up centers to inform the illegals how to vote, who to vote for, what bills to support, how to get more money from the U.S. "entitlement" programs, etc.
The goal being control over U.S. politics and more money sent back to Mex.

When a foreign power initiates a program designed to project it's will on another country as this one is, to change the course of events in that country, to loot the targeted country of resources, that is power projection and an act of aggression.
It is one thing when you are the victor settling the details of a past declared war, such as we are doing with Iraq.
It is quite another when you are attacking your "trading partner" as Mexico is doing to us.

This is in reality a type of invasion, not mere "poor immigrants seeking a better life".

Mexico is using the illegals as instruments of aggression, they want U.S. dollars and do not care how many "peasants" suffer to obtain them.

We are the "safety valve" for Mexico's corrupt Gov. Org., it's so much easier to send disidents over the border than to have to deal with them at home.
If the people of Mexico ever truly revolt against the corruption I will respect that, nothing is more "hard work" than overthrowing a corrupt regime.
Sneaking into the U.S. and taking a job at minimum wage is a lazy lout's vacation by comparison.

Now which do we see happen on a daily basis?
82 posted on 02/05/2003 5:50:00 PM PST by Richard-SIA
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To: Richard-SIA
To the World Court (joke) I say, " May your gonads turn square and get septic at the corners".
83 posted on 02/05/2003 5:52:11 PM PST by Never2baCrat
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To: garbanzo
That's the key legal issue here. Federal executive branch officials have absolutely no legal recourse to stay a Texas execution. Federal courts may have the legal power under the supremacy clause to stay it but that's not a matter of settled law as far as I know.

In other words, the order should have been addressed to Texas instead of the US. Of course, I'm willing to bet that Texas never signed the Convention on Consular Relations.

84 posted on 02/05/2003 5:54:35 PM PST by NovemberCharlie
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Comment #85 Removed by Moderator

To: Post Toasties
The United States and Japan are the only rich industrialized nations to execute convicted criminals.

Yep. And the Japanese don't even announce it in advance. One day the hangman comes, the next day the relatives are told to pick up the corpse and the belongings. Of course, every newpaper article announcing the execuations are careful to point out their years of appeals and generally multiple and always vicious crimes. Public opinion in favor of keeping the hangings generally run in the mid 80 percentages.

86 posted on 02/05/2003 6:00:00 PM PST by Vigilanteman
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To: Buckeye Bomber
Oh yeah, it's real easy to see the intentions of people dead for 200 years. C'mon honestly, think before you post.

Well, you could read the federalist papers. As well, you could cut the silly sarcasm.

87 posted on 02/05/2003 6:05:33 PM PST by meyer
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Yeah, that's it. I knew it was here somewhere.
88 posted on 02/05/2003 6:26:23 PM PST by Enterprise
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To: WhirlwindAttack
You my friend have been reported to the authorities.

Keep your dirty racist slurs off of my Free Republic.
89 posted on 02/05/2003 6:27:01 PM PST by Buckeye Bomber
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To: NovemberCharlie
Texas better not sign any treaties involving foreign powers. They are not allowed to do so!
90 posted on 02/05/2003 6:28:54 PM PST by Buckeye Bomber
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To: Tancredo Fan; Aliska; Drill Alaska; Black Agnes; Joe Hadenuf; gubamyster; F16Fighter; dennisw; ...
bump
91 posted on 02/05/2003 6:29:02 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: seamole
Freeze them? Well, that's a little unorthodox, but if they insist...

ROTFLOL!

92 posted on 02/05/2003 6:35:52 PM PST by LibKill (ColdWarrior. I stood the watch.)
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To: kattracks
When crooks come to this country and break the laws they must be punished.The laws we have must apply to all law breakers.tell the world court to kiss it.
93 posted on 02/05/2003 6:41:37 PM PST by solo gringo
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To: kattracks
World Court Tells U.S. to Freeze Mexican Executions

I have no problem with freezing Mexican murderers, although lethal injection is faster.

94 posted on 02/05/2003 6:49:34 PM PST by xJones
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To: kattracks; madfly; FITZ; Bill Davis FR; mhking; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; Elkiejg; barker; ...
The world court ? isnt that about as credible as the un?

What i want to say to them is censored what i would do to them is censored as well.....BUMSEN IT the WELTCGericht.

95 posted on 02/05/2003 7:03:08 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (The Fellowship of Conservatives)
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To: TheBattman
Exactly what authority (or Jurisdiction for that matter) does the world court have in these cases?

As I understand it, none.

But sometimes law gets made by default. If some US judge or other authority starts following up on this, then it could set a bad precedent. And politics can enter in as well. For example, the State Department has a bad habit of placating other countries and worrying about foreign public opinion.

96 posted on 02/05/2003 7:07:14 PM PST by Cicero
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To: Cicero
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case=/us/000/97%2D8214.html
97 posted on 02/05/2003 7:14:34 PM PST by Zoey
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To: marron
Was it ratified?

Ratified? Who cares! Income tax was never ratified but they bleed it out of you anyway.

98 posted on 02/05/2003 8:46:36 PM PST by PistolPaknMama (kaboom!)
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To: Zoey
Thanks I thought there was a recent Supreme Court case on this. Here's the key sentence -

If the Governor wishes to wait for the decision of the ICJ, that is his prerogative. But nothing in our existing case law allows us to make that choice for him.

The decision raises an important question - in any event the ICC doesn't have the jurisdiction to overturn a conviction in the United States so what exactly is the point of all of this anyway?

99 posted on 02/05/2003 8:48:36 PM PST by garbanzo (Free people will set the course of history)
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To: mhking
Hell; strap all three of 'em in...

hahahhaha,, now you're talking,, Hey,, ole sparky is available,,
even the enviro whackos should be happy with the savings on electricity

100 posted on 02/05/2003 9:00:40 PM PST by vinylsidingman (euroweenies can't handle getting rid of scum,, so again ,US youngsters will show em how)
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