IDF (Israel Defense Forces) won’t buy IMI Tavor rifle for lack of budget

Globes ^ | 4 February 2003 | Dror Marom

[anotherview]

IDF won’t buy IMI Tavor rifle for lack of budget

Israel Military Industries: Statements that the Tavor is the best rifle in the world cannot be deposited at the bank.

Dror Marom 4 Feb 03 16:39

The IDF is not equipping its combat units with Israel Military Industries’ (IMI) Tavor assault rifle at this time. The reason is a shortage in the defense establishment’s shekel budget. The shortage puts in doubt the IDF’s plan to equip its combat troops with the assault rifle developed by IMI’s small arms division. Only a few rifles have been purchased to date for use in pilot operations to test its combat suitability.

There is concern that the defense establishment’s shekel budget shortage will force the IDF to buy rifles from the US, using US military aid. IMI stated today, “Statements that the Tavor is the best rifle in the world cannot be deposited at the bank. We still expect to receive a full operational purchase order for the rifle, which is essential to improve our global marketing efforts.”

Minister of Defense Shaul Mofaz praised the Tavor yesterday during a visit to the company.

In order to improve the chances that the IDF will purchase the Tavor, IMI is negotiating with several US companies to jointly manufacture the rifle. If US companies make the entire Tavor, or at least 50% of its components, it would be declared “Made in USA” and US aid could be used to procure it. IMI’s Integrated Security Systems unit currently manufactures the Tavor. The main parts are produced at IMI’s Kiryat Shmona plant and assembled at IMI’s center in Ramat Hasharon.

The Tavor is designed as a soldier’s personal weapon. It comes in five versions: basic assault rifle; a commander’s personal weapon; a sharp-shooting configuration as a squad weapon; a short version for commando, airborne, paratroopers, special rescue units, and tank crews; and Micro Tavor specially configured for security forces and special missions. The Tavor uses standard NATO 5.56mm ammunition. The special forces version weighs 2.4 kg, and can be equipped with special laser and night vision sights. It is built of advanced rust-resistant materials, and can fire up to 750-900 rounds a minute. The Tavor is designed to NATO standards.

Published by Globes [online] - www.globes.co.il - on February 4, 2003

[archy]

What's the bottom picture, Archy getting ready for a business conference?

My mistake, I thought you ment the pic with the Israeli Chen parachute rigger cuties. Nope, that's one of the Shrike belt-feed M16 conversions in the attache case, though for most uses, a longer barrel would be more practical.

I used to have a WWII German MG34 set up in a similar carry atrrangement, they can be compact, but they're still heavy. The SHRIKE, being based on the M16, is at least lighter than most. Around 21 March, we'll see how reliable it is, though initial tests have been very promising.

The Israeli police are considering the SHRIKE for use as a belt-fed MG that's a good deal less expensive than a NEGEV or FN-MINIMI/M249 SAW, and which when not in use as an MG, can have its regular M4 carbine upper receiver put back on for use as a standard patrol rifle. Handy for them, if it works. Of course, even with the belt feed fitted, the M16 rifle selector can be left in the semi-position, but that's sort of like using a racehorse to pull a plow....

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

Travis. It seems to me that the pivot point for turning your weapon on a new target is your forward hand. With this weapon won't that affect your trigger control quite a bit with that hand operating both?

Changing biomechanics when it comes to mag changes seems small when I consider this aiming/firing difference from presently used weapons.

[Johnny Gage]

nuthing better than girls with guns... AND uniforms.

[swarthyguy]

What Would Gandhi Fire?

[Squantos]

their discredited L85A1 Individual Weapons ... Oh No....no longer true Archy ! HK fixed it < / sarcasm >

Stay Safe !

[mgc1122]

Maybe we should have a telethon to raise some money for them to buy a few more of these things ...

[Squantos]

His cook from the looks of the skinny SOB before he died.......

Stay Safe !

[archy]

Oh No....no longer true Archy ! HK fixed it < / sarcasm >

Stay Safe !

Squantos, I've extensively wrung out the L85/SA 80 several times, carried one *for real* a couple of times when my life stood a better than even chance of depending on it, and used the similar L86 LSW on one similar occasion, all with no particular problems. My experience is that the things are nowhere near as bad as their reputation, earned in large part from stories repeated by journalists and those who've never so used them. Certainly the Gurkhas haven't been heard to whine or complain about getting them, though they were as happy previously with their L1A1 SLRs and the hodgepodge of M16A1 rifles they'd previously used, but now have happily been soldiering along with the SA80 after using them successfully on numerous real-world operations. And when something eventually does replace SA 80, as it finally will sooner or later, the Gurkhas will make do just fine with that.

I hardly think of the things as my first choice of those novelties that come in handy during spirited debates, but they're not my last pick either- and I'm much fussier about the condition of the individual example I get from the arms room rack, be it L85A1, M16A2 M4A1 carbine or AK 47/74/103.

I almost wonder if H&K didn't make any incipient problems worse, but in any event, I flat cherish the use of the steel SA80 magazines for use in my own M16A1 as the best examples around of 30-round mags for the Armalite family. Of course that'd be one way H&K could sell some more G36s, which BTW, I'm not at all fond of. I'd rather haul a L85A1, or better, an L86, though the old HK33 is okay and reliable, if, like the Galil, a bit heavy.

[KantianBurke]

amen to that!

[archy]

What would Gandi Fire?

He was a smallish gent, and presumably, would have carried a weapon more as a ceremonial totem or as a means of setting an example to his followers had he thought that was the best and most pragmatic course for them to follow at the time, as a means of quickly and clearly demonstrating to them that *it's time....* He might well not even have bothered to load or testfire such a symbolic personal arm, but yet it would have served him. And he would have been in and out of vehicles, possibly even aircraft, as he travelled, so would look for something reasonably compact and convenient, if not necessarily concealable. I don't expect an overly great concern for his own life was an overriding consideration for him, but as a good leader, I'd not be surprised if he'd at least attempt to set a personal example or teach a lesson to be followed by his conduct and deeds.

My guess, of the arms available in his time? A Stirling/Patchet SMG, L2A3 or variant thereof, fairly common in that part of the world, more convenient than most rifles, and a bit less crude than a Sten gun. They're simple, compact, have low recoil and low noise, and are quite suitable for use in cities or at night, if no substitute for a good rifle, but make for a pretty fair militia, police or home guard defense weapon. There are still quite a few in service, mostly in police hands, in India, Pakistan and Nepal, and they'll likely be heard well into the first half of this century just as they were in the last half of the latter one. Of today's choices, that Tavor shorty version would be an approximate equivalent, and it too would serve such a role quite well.

"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

-- Mahatma Ghandi

[archy]

nuthin better than girls with guns... AND uniforms. I'm rather fond of A girl, with guns... and NO uniform.... at times, at least.

Might that possibility also be worth your consideration....

-archy-/-

[swarthyguy]

Thank You very much. Certainly didn't expect it!!! And I will steal that quote.

[Johnny Gage]

I'm rather fond of A girl, with guns... and NO uniform.... at times, at least.
Might that possibility also be worth your consideration....

Absitively Posilutely! Quite worthy of consideration.

[archy]

Can the Tavor be switched to accomodate a left handed shooter like the Steyr?

The first TAVOR prototypes were right-side ejection only; the more recent TAR 21 examples can be switched from rightside to left without special parts [the Steyr requires a seperate left-side ejection upper receiver module] like the switchable French FAMAS *Clarion* G2. That still leaves the difficulty of immediate use when inside buildings around doorways, covering corridors or wall corners and from vehicles.

The Israeli armoured corps recently took delivery of the first of 10,000 rebuilt Galil rifles, in a shorty *Glilon* MAR *Micro-Galil* configuration cut down from the longer infantry rifle. Replacing the now beat-up Uzi SMGs that equipped Israel's tank crews for the last five decades, the short-barrelled versions of the M16 were tried and lasted less than 5 years: their collapsing stocks don't fold to a completely closed position, break easily when bounced around inside a tank, and the aluminum and plastic components are crushed or break far to easily in such service- the CAR15s that the tankists turned back in were mostly considered nonrebuildable and were stripped for such parts as could be salvaged. And, of course, both the Galil and M16 share that righthand side ejection, which can be inconvenient for vehicle crewmen and helicopter crews, too.

The Armored Corps is hedging their bets though, and has requested development of a Tavor that will eject through the bottom or out the front of the foreend, suitable for use by either a right-handed or Southpaw operator without adjustment or concerns about brass bouncing off their nose...or eye. It may be 10 years or so until their Galil MAR rifles need to be replaced, but just in case, they've got a backup plan available, which is the usual Israeli tankman's way of doing things. We may see that version developed or we may not; now the requirements of foreign buyers will make a major difference in the features found in production models.

But at last year's SHOT Show trade exhibition for the firearms industry, a couple of prototype TAVOR semiautos intended for manufacture and sale in the US were displayed, by Barrett, the folks who make the .50 caliber semiauto rifles. Again, these were prototypes, and final versions may offer fewer, more or different features or configurations. But this year's SHOT show is coming up, and it'll be interesting to see if any Israeli bullpup rifles show up again this year...and in what form.

And, of course, the sound-suppressed MTAR shorty TAVOR carbine is also of interest....