FOAM HAS PLAGUED NASA FOR 5 YEARS

Mercury News ^

[fooman]

NASA has asked that tests involving freon free foam be witheld. What are they hiding?

Article shows a NASA engineer noting the difficulties in creating the same characteristics.

[fooman]

Ping!

[anniegetyourgun]

Where in the article does it say NASA withholding foam info that I was reading about here on FR even yesterday?

[fooman]

Environmental issue

In his 1997 report, Katnik noted that the 1997 mission, STS-87, was the first to use a new method of ``foaming'' the tanks, one designed to address NASA's goal of using environmentally friendly products. The shift came as the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency was ordering many industries to phase out the use of Freon, an aerosol propellant linked to ozone depletion and global warming.

As recently as last September, a retired engineering manager for Lockheed Martin, the contractor that assembles the tanks, told a conference in New Orleans that developing a new foam to meet environmental standards had ``been much more difficult than anticipated.''

The retired Lockheed engineer, who helped design the thermal protection system, said the switch from a foam based on Freon -- also known as CFC-11 -- has ``resulted in unanticipated program impacts, such as foam loss during flight.''

In fact, he noted, the hits to Columbia on that 1997 mission, the same one Katnik studied, forced NASA to replace nearly 11 times more damaged tiles than it had after a previous mission that had used Freon-based foam.

Lockheed spokesman Harry Wadsworth said Monday that the company was referring questions to NASA. ``I cannot talk about any past problems with foam or the history of foam,'' he said. ``We're not talking about the investigation.''

Despite the concerns, NASA has never described the foam problem as a potential catastrophic threat, but considered it enough of an issue to warrant a series of tests.

In 1999, the Southwest Research Institute, a non-profit laboratory in San Antonio, Texas, fired insulating foam fragments from a compressed-gas gun into thermal tiles and recorded the results with digital cameras. After the Columbia crash, NASA asked the institute not to release those results. The space agency also has tested the foam in wind tunnels and aboard a research jet.

[fooman]

I just highlighted the witholding part

[PhiKapMom]

In yesterday's briefing, the NASA spokesman said they were withholding a lot of data as they were being very conservative in what they released until they were able to check and recheck. That is standard procedure in an Accident Investigation.

Please cut them some slack -- Accident Investigations do not happen over night! These people have a huge task ahead of them to pinpoint the cause. No one wants to find the answer more than NASA. If it turns out that the pinpoint of the cause was the liftoff, they will give the details. They are not going to send off another shuttle until they can be absolutely sure they have the problem identified and can fix it!

[TLBSHOW]

PING

[CWOJackson]

Here's your answer, the highly respected aero-nut-ical engineering firm of TBLSHOW and Mertz were able to determine the cause of the disaster and assess the blame in just a few hours of the tragedy. Why waste the time and money on a shame investigation when everything has already been decided; let's just impeach the President and get rid of NASA now.

[CWOJackson]

Here's your answer, the highly respected aero-nut-ical engineering firm of TBLSHOW and Mertz were able to determine the cause of the disaster and assess the blame in just a few hours of the tragedy. Why waste the time and money on a shame investigation when everything has already been decided; let's just impeach the President and get rid of NASA now.

[TLBSHOW]

Environmental issue

In his 1997 report, Katnik noted that the 1997 mission, STS-87, was the first to use a new method of ``foaming'' the tanks, one designed to address NASA's goal of using environmentally friendly products. The shift came as the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency was ordering many industries to phase out the use of Freon, an aerosol propellant linked to ozone depletion and global warming.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/5100794.htm

[fooman]

I agree that investigations take as long as needed.

But we were promised by Ron that we would have the facts as they emerged and that the facts might change as they were understood.

I am ok with this. Take 6 months. But we need transparency or we will get a Foster type investigation(no X-rays) or a TWA 800 investigation (OBVIOUS coverup that George Stuffanolpolis admitted to on national TV)

NASA has BIG incentives to cover up if it turns out that PC foam killed these seven astros....

... And while I am reluctant to jump to conclusions, you have an old NASA engineer saying that the two foams were different specs.

[isthisnickcool]

FOAM HAS PLAGUED NASA FOR 5 YEARS

Does not equal your heading:

More foam Stuff (NASA witholding test results!)

Your heading is bogus!

[Robe]

Me thinks that this environmental foam switch just may be the "smoking gun".

NASA has always been reluctant to "re-do" a decision like this for fear of looking like
they're vacillating.

I worked for a NASA contractor back in the Skylab days, and this type of mind set was in
place then.....I can't believe it's still there after all these years and lives lost!

[ez]

In his 1997 report, Katnik noted that the 1997 mission, STS-87, was the first to use a new method of ``foaming'' the tanks, one designed to address NASA's goal of using environmentally friendly products. The shift came as the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency was ordering many industries to phase out the use of Freon, an aerosol propellant linked to ozone depletion and global warming.

Looks like the environmentalist whackos killed the astronauts...(/giant leap of logic.)

[fooman]

Its not bogus, its the main idea and Highlight of the article.

Please read the whole article.

[PhiKapMom]

LOL!!! I thought so! One thing is for sure, they have never been around Accident Investigations before! They look for everything and this one has the military involved in determining cause.

[TLBSHOW]

You give me way too much credit. It was all due to fellow freepers reporter and common sense and newsreports.

As I said as Saturday night trouble started at the point of re-entry. Streaking across America the craft had caught fire and was burning red hot all the way in till it just came apart over Texas. Cause was the tiles and the damage done on on the left wing at take off. Could they of been saved? Reports say no. I say yes! Was there warnings? Yes!
Is there now a cover up? There can't be bcause too much is known, and Bill O'Reilly is on the job now.

[Frank_Discussion]

"But we were promised by Ron that we would have the facts as they emerged and that the facts might change as they were understood."

Quite correct. And as soon as it is know for a fact which foam was used for the STS-107 ET, I'm betting they'll release the info. Until then, they are verifying which foam was applied.

This happens a lot in engineering forensics. Something is built, and everyone SWEARS it's been done to the specs, but you find out later that a bolt or something wasn't the right one. That's the situation for the Columbia mishap team, with the added recent experience that the media know-nothings latch onto speculation and present it as fact. I'd be tight-lipped, too, until the real answer was apparent.

I have concerns about the tank, myself, so I personally expect full disclosure. But I'll let them determine their timing.

[TLBSHOW]

that is part of it

[CWOJackson]

What? Some people on FR rushing to judgement? Do you doubt their qualifications and motivation?