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Observation on TPS damage on Orbiter
NASA photos
| 2-3-03
| BoneMccoy
Posted on 02/04/2003 1:34:19 AM PST by bonesmccoy
click here to read article
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To: Budge
see link above - ROTFLMAO -
"In his afternoon briefing, Dittemore presented charts showing the sequential shutdown of sensors during the final minutes of Columbia's flight as the orbiter encountered a problem as yet undefined. He also revealed a fuzzy photo taken by Air Force cameras as Columbia flew overhead. Dittemore discounted earlier press reports, which interpreted the damage, as premature. He said,
" It is not clear to me that this photo reveals anything significant at this point."
581
posted on
02/08/2003 7:50:11 AM PST
by
XBob
To: Budge
582
posted on
02/08/2003 8:05:33 AM PST
by
XBob
To: Budge
583
posted on
02/08/2003 8:08:01 AM PST
by
XBob
To: Budge
Heres the link to the video showing the northern Arizona video taken by the two kids showing something separating from the shuttle at 7:55:52 Dallas Time (time/date stamp on video was 6:55:52):
CLICK! Video also shows another clip of contrail anomolies occuring in California a few minutes earlier.
To: XBob
That is a sizable chunck of carbon/carbon.
Don't you think that wing parts found in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area more than likely would be from the right wing? It would seem any left wing parts would be further west.
585
posted on
02/08/2003 8:54:35 AM PST
by
Budge
(God Bless FReepers!)
To: XBob
because you must still hoist the protection gear off the pad. True. I suppose any material strong enough to protect the tiles would weigh too much to counter the safety. Anything light and/or thin would be a waste of time, effort, and money.
586
posted on
02/08/2003 8:58:32 AM PST
by
Budge
(God Bless FReepers!)
To: XBob
" It is not clear to me that this photo reveals anything significant at this point."
Other than a teeny weeny event where the leading edge of the left wing has deformed and the ship is coming apart as it roars across the sky on fire-
587
posted on
02/08/2003 9:18:30 AM PST
by
freepersup
(And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
To: Budge
Roger that- Thanks for the time hacks.
I look forward to the story board that NASA is sure to create, what with all of the amateur and professional documentation available to them.
Hours, minutes, seconds, superimposed on a screen- click- images running- click- sensor indications displayed- click- flight position over the U S- click- vehicle condition- click... etc.
588
posted on
02/08/2003 9:28:51 AM PST
by
freepersup
(And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
To: XBob
I understand risk is inherent in such an endeavor as space flight / exploration. Therefore, the inherent risks associated with the tile technology may in fact be an acceptable risk. After all, what we've just witnessed are the first fatalities in the shuttle program to be associated with such risks.
It's possible that the next 200 launches go off without a hitch, before another tile strike and burn through takes place. Perhaps another 1,000 launches go off without a hitch. Or... Murphy's law rears it's ugly head and the next launch sees a piercing of the underside of the wing.
In my lay mind I probably can't even begin to fathom the enormous difficulties and complexities that would go into re-engineering the tile design- ie: 'armor' plating.
I know the trade off is weight gain vs protection...
However, I want (my-our) engineers to work this problem out to completion-operation (in theory).
What is the story behind Russia's space launch system ? Even as a lay person I've heard the buzz or hype, that these rockets are monsters and out lift our system significantly.
Need ceramic tile protection ? Plate them. Too much weight ? Increase the lifting power. Don't we need to look at increasing our lift system / capabilities anyway ?
The shuttle hasn't come close to projected launch schedules and is grossly off the charts regarding financial budgets.
Maybe we should take a real hard look at these shortcomings ? Perhaps the silver lining in this cloud might be that NASA is turned on it's proverbial head and shook vigorously.
With some vision (Mars, deep space, heavier loads, robust schedule) we might end up with a far better (more powerful) launch system and a safer shuttle. One that sprang from the more immediate problem at hand, improvement of the tile technology with emphasis on protecting / strengthening said tiles ?
So we protect the tiles with plating (super heat resistant metals alloys ? ) and wind up with a far better lift capability.
THINK BIG- we have to think anyway. paraphrasing (I think) Donald Trump
589
posted on
02/08/2003 10:04:40 AM PST
by
freepersup
(And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
To: XBob
perhaps nearly the whole leading edge of the wing stripped off, when the front part pulled off.Yes, if the impact point we selected is correct, the plasma could have undermined the structure holding the edge pieces on.
As stated somewhere earlier, the assembly is fastened to the shuttle wing about two feet back from the edge.
In my travels and career I have used a plasma cutter on numerous occasions. They cut metal faster than a oxy-acetylene torch. The plasma blows the hot debris out of the way and hungers for more. It is very fast once you get it going and cuts almost anything, especially stainless and aluminum alloys.
To: Dark Wing
Long useful thread.
591
posted on
02/08/2003 10:29:39 AM PST
by
Thud
To: XBob
I agree with the first part of your secondary theory. IMO the tile-shedding began at the trailing edge. I'm still uncertain as to whether the final loss of control was due to increasing port drag eventually overpowering the ability of the control mechanisms to maintain stability, or there was a final catastrophic event causing loss of control - mostly likely an elvon burn-through.
592
posted on
02/08/2003 10:44:27 AM PST
by
Thud
To: freepersup
That's the way I see it.
593
posted on
02/08/2003 10:55:11 AM PST
by
Thud
To: wirestripper
To: Thud
IMO the tile-shedding began at the trailing edge.Actually, we believe it began at the wheel well door area,(left side), and progressed from there, once the door failed.
To: wirestripper
This means that in addition to the possible failure of black tile at the point where the wing joins the fuselage, a failure involving the attachment mechanisms for the leading edge sections could also be a factor, either related or not to the debris impact. The actual front structure of a shuttle wing is flat. To provide aerodynamic shape and heat protection, each wing is fitted with 22 U-shaped reinforced carbon-carbon (RCC) leading-edge structures. The carbon material in the leading edge, as well as the orbiter nose cap, is designed to protect the shuttle from temperatures above 2,300F during reentry. Any breach of this leading-edge material would have catastrophic consequences.
This is a excerpt from the above article.
To: Budge
What I find intriguing in all of the sensor data (6 minutes 19 seconds) is the slightly off normal temperature gains. Nothing drastic.
Puzzling, in that, all data is lost in the 6th minute and 20th second. Like snapping your finger or flipping a light switch. Poof- The cataclysmic event occurring at this moment is total.
How many like events do we have data on (to reference) where an airship that is traveling at 12,000 mph, disintegrates ? If we are to compare apples with apples then the obvious answer is none (only shuttle accident on re-entry).
It's hard to come to grips with having all data functioning and transferring as normal, to a slight anomaly in readings, to absolutely nothing... which means we no longer have an intact ship or crew.
597
posted on
02/08/2003 11:12:02 AM PST
by
freepersup
(And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
To: Eastbound
Wow! Thanks for the video link.
598
posted on
02/08/2003 11:12:39 AM PST
by
Spunky
To: Thud
"Total destruction with little warning or data. Tiles peeling off fit this profile. A fatal action was unfolding in slow motion which reached critical mass with catastrophic consequences."
599
posted on
02/08/2003 11:14:41 AM PST
by
freepersup
(And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
To: freepersup
What I find intriguing in all of the sensor data (6 minutes 19 seconds) is the slightly off normal temperature gains. Nothing drastic.Puzzling, in that, all data is lost in the 6th minute and 20th second. Like snapping your finger or flipping a light switch. Poof- The cataclysmic event occurring at this moment is total.
According to the tape the captain and ground control was talking about the temp. raise and the captain was cut off right in the middle of a word.
Which shows how cataclysmic it must have been.
600
posted on
02/08/2003 11:21:43 AM PST
by
Spunky
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