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Observation on TPS damage on Orbiter
NASA photos | 2-3-03 | BoneMccoy

Posted on 02/04/2003 1:34:19 AM PST by bonesmccoy

In recent days the popular media has been focusing their attention on an impact event during the launch of STS-107. The impact of External Tank insulation and/or ice with the Orbiter during ascent was initially judged by NASA to be unlikely to cause loss of the vehicle. Obviously, loss of the integrity of the orbiter Thermal Protection System occured in some manner. When Freepers posted the reports of these impacts on the site, I initially discounted the hypothesis. Orbiters had sustained multiple impacts in the past. However, the size of the plume in the last photo gives me pause.

I'd like to offer to FR a few observations on the photos.

1. In this image an object approximately 2-3 feet appears to be between the orbiter and the ET.

2. In this image the object appears to have rotated relative to both the camera and the orbiter. The change in image luminosity could also be due to a change in reflected light from the object. Nevertheless, it suggests that the object is tumbling and nearing the orbiter's leading edge.

It occurs to me that one may be able to estimate the size of the object and make an educated guess regarding the possible mass of the object. Using the data in the video, one can calculate the relative velocity of the object to the orbiter wing. Creating a test scenario is then possible. One can manufacture a test article and fire ET insulation at the right velocity to evaluate impact damage on the test article.

OV-101's port wing could be used as a test stand with RCC and tile attached to mimic the OV-102 design.

The color of the object seems inconsistent with ET insulation. One can judge the ET color by looking at the ET in the still frame. The color of the object seems more consistent with ice or ice covered ET insulation. Even when accounting for variant color hue/saturation in the video, the object clearly has a different color characteristic from ET insulation. If it is ice laden insulation, the mass of the object would be significantly different from ET insulation alone. Since the velocity of the object is constant in a comparison equation, estimating the mass of the object becomes paramount to understanding the kinetic energy involved in the impact with the TPS.

3. In this image the debris impact creates a plume. My observation is that if the plume was composed primarily of ET insulation, the plume should have the color characteristics of ET insulation. This plume has a white color.

Unfortunately, ET insulation is orange/brown in color.

In addition, if the relative density of the ET insulation is known, one can quantify the colorimetric properties of the plume to disintegrating ET insulation upon impact.

Using the test article experiment model, engineers should fire at the same velocity an estimated mass of ET insulation (similar to the object seen in the still frame) at the test article. The plume should be measured colorimetrically. By comparing this experimental plume to the photographic evidence from the launch, one may be able to quantify the amount of ET insulation in the photograph above.

4. In this photo, the plume spreads from the aft of the orbiter's port wing. This plume does not appear to be the color of ET insulation. It appears to be white.

This white color could be the color of ice particles at high altitude.

On the other hand, the composition of TPS tiles under the orbiter wings is primarily a low-density silica.

In the photo above, you can see a cross section of orbiter TPS tile. The black color of the tile is merely a coating. The interior of the tile is a white, low-density, silica ceramic.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: columbiaaccident; nasa; shuttle; sts; sts107
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To: XBob
Good point. It would have been ironic to try this and then find a bunch of tiles pulverized or stressed needlessly. Oh well. The guy who proposed it is a PHD too, I think. ;-o
3,001 posted on 03/12/2003 10:14:52 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: NormsRevenge; wirestripper; bonesmccoy
http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~stevenpc/RCC/selection.html

Active protection forcibly cools the hottest surfaces of the vehicle to reduce their temperature, allowing for more conventional materials to be used. Although an active system was deemed workable in a 1972 study, it was determined to be too heavy (Current Technology..., p. 292). In ablative cooling, a thin coating on the craft burns up upon reentry, dissipating some of the heat. Although this system had been used successfully for most of the history of the US Space Program, it did not satisfy the condition of extended reusability (Lucas, p. 569). This leaves radiative protection.

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~stevenpc/RCC/selection1.jpg

(From Carbon-Carbon..., p.12) The superalloys of the day could not withstand the high temperatures at the leading edge. Ceramic tiles like those used on most of the shuttle could almost withstand the temperature, but were too weak for the leading edges. Carbon-carbon composites were known to have high strength at elevated temperatures and low coefficients of thermal expansion, but were extremely susceptible to burning up the presence of oxygen. RCC represents a compromise between a carbon-carbon composite and ceramics. It uses carbon-carbon for strength and a thin outer coating of silicon carbide to protect the carbon from the atmosphere. This produces a very strong, very heat resistant material with a low coefficient of thermal expansion that is well suited for reentry vehicles.

===

Look at the drop in strength of the ceramics as the temperature increases.

3,002 posted on 03/12/2003 11:19:47 PM PST by XBob
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To: NormsRevenge; wirestripper; bonesmccoy
http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~stevenpc/RCC/properties.html

The Properties and Production of RCC

The cross-section of a material with the same structure as RCC.
(From Carbon-Carbon..., p. 244)

       Carbon-Carbon (CC) composites were first developed by the airforce
  in the 50's, where they were used in the nose-cones of missiles
  (Carbon-Carbon...). CC is essentially made from strands of graphite in a
  carbon matrix. Although highly anisotropic, graphite is very strong.
  The anisotropy is overcome by orienting the strands in different
  directions. RCC starts as a "resin-densified fabric laminate made
  from ... carbon fibers" (Carbon-Carbon..., p.241). This structure
  provides the inherent strength of RCC, but leaves it open to oxidation at
  high temperatures. To make it more useful, the unprotected CC is covered
  with a dry mixture including silica and silicon carbide and heated to
  over 3,200°F in an inert atmosphere. This process actually converts the
  outermost layers of the CC into silicon carbide (Dumoulin). Due to a
  difference in the coefficients of thermal expansion between the CC and
  its silicon carbide shell, cracks form in the carbide layer upon cooling.
  To fill these cracks, the surface is treated with tetraethoxysilane and
  then heated to convert this chemical into silicon dioxide. Hence, the
  final RCC piece consists of a CC base with a coating of silicon carbide
  impregnated with silicon dioxide to fill its cracks.
  (Carbon-Carbon..., p. 241-243).


RCC Material Properties
(Thermal Protection...), (Carbon-Carbon...)

     RCC has had a successful career in its role on the shuttle, even
  replacing some of the ceramic tiles in areas of unexpected stress
  (Thermal Protection..., p. 32). While newer materials may prove to be
  lighter or more efficient, very few have the same time-tested reliability
  that RCC has gained over the last 20 years of service.


  Abstract
  Design Requirements
  Selection of RCC
  The Properties and Production of RCC
  The Future
  Bibliography

3,003 posted on 03/12/2003 11:46:04 PM PST by XBob
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To: NormsRevenge
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/RT1999/5000/5160jacobson.html

ContentsAuthors & ContactsMore R&T ReportsSearch NASAGlenn HomeNASA Home

Formation of Leading-Edge Pinholes in the Space Shuttle Wings Investigated

The space shuttle wing leading edge and nose cap are composed of a carbon/carbon composite that is protected by silicon carbide. The coefficient of thermal expansion mismatch leads to cracks in the silicon carbide. The outer coating of the silicon carbide is a sodium-silicate-based glass that becomes fluid at the shuttles’ high reentry temperatures and fills these cracks.

Small pinholes roughly 0.1 mm in diameter have been observed on these materials after 12 or more flights. These pinholes have been investigated by researchers at the NASA Johnson Space Center, Rockwell International, the Boeing Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, and the NASA Glenn Research Center at Lewis Field to determine the possible sources and the extent of damage.

photomicrographs

Left: Pinhole from OV–102 wing leading-edge panel 12 RH; 15 flights. Right: Cross-sectional view (backscattered electron image).

A typical pinhole is illustrated in the preceding photomicrographs. These pinholes are found primarily on the wing leading edges and not on the nose cap, which is covered when the orbiter is on the launch pad. The pinholes are generally associated with a bead of zinc-rich glass. Examination of the orbiter and launch structure indicates that weathering paint on the launch structure leads to deposits of zinc-containing paint flakes on the wing leading edge. These may become embedded in the crevices of the wing leading edge and form the observed zinc-rich glass.

Laboratory experiments indicate that zinc oxide reacts vigorously with the glass coating on the silicon carbide. Thus, it is likely that this is the reaction that leads to pinhole formation (Christensen, S.V.: Reinforced Carbon/Carbon Pin Hole Formation Through Zinc Oxide Attack. Rockwell International Internal Letter, RDW–96–057, May 1996). Cross-sectional examination of pinholes suggests that they are enlarged thermal expansion mismatch cracks. This is illustrated in the following photomicrographs. A careful microstructural analysis indicates that the pinhole walls consist of layers of zinc-containing glass. Thus, pinholes are likely formed by zinc oxide particles lodging in crevices and forming a corrosive zinc-rich glass that enlarges existing cracks (ref. 1).

photomicrographs

Left: Pinhole from OV-102 wing leading-edge panel; 12 RH, 15 flights. Right: Cross-sectional view with optical microscope.

Having established the likely source of the pinholes, we next needed to model the damage (ref. 2). Our concern was that if a pinhole went through the silicon carbide to the carbon/carbon substrate, oxygen would have a clear path to oxidize the carbon at high temperatures. This possibility was examined with studies in a laboratory furnace. An ultrasonic drill was used to make artificial pinholes in a sample of protected carbon/carbon. After exposure, the specimens were weighed and cross-sectioned to quantify the extent of oxidation below the pinhole.

The results at higher temperatures showed good agreement with a simple diffusion-control model. This model is based on the two-step oxidation of carbon to carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide. The fluxes are illustrated in the final figure. The model indicates a strong dependence on pinhole diameter. For smaller diameters and short times, the oxidation of carbon is very limited.

diagram showing from left to right C/C and CO regions, Region II, and Region I

Model for the oxidation of a carbon/carbon composite at the bottom of a pinhole in a SiC coating.

References

  1. Jacobson, N.S.: Space Shuttle Pinhole Formation Mechanism Studies. NASA/TM—1998-208659.
  2. Jacobson, N.S., et al.: Oxidative Attack of Carbon/Carbon Substrates Through Coating Pinholes. Carbon vol. 37, no. 3, 1999, pp. 411–419.

Glenn contact: Dr. Nathan S. Jacobson, (216) 433–5498, Nathan.S.Jacobson@grc.nasa.gov

NASA Johnson contact: Dr. Donald M. Curry, (281) 483–8865, donald.m.curry1@jsc.nasa.gov

Author: Dr. Nathan S. Jacobson

Headquarters program office: OSF

Programs/Projects: Space Shuttle Leading Edge Structural Subsystem


next page Next article

previous page Previous article


Responsible NASA Official: Walter.S.Kim@grc.nasa.gov, 216-433-3742,
point of contact for NASA Glenn's Research & Technology reports

Web page curator: Nancy.Amman@grc.nasa.gov (InDyne, Inc.)

Last updated: April 2000

3,004 posted on 03/13/2003 12:10:33 AM PST by XBob
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To: XBob
Well detective XBob, looks like your forensic evidence training is beginning to pay off for the precinct. By the way, the chief wants to see you upstairs. I think the department just lost a good detective but gained a fine lieutenant. Congratulations.

In the vast chain of events, are we finding another factor in- possible corrosion / fatigue / oxidation, of the RCC's, which, when coupled with the impact force of the foam, suffered a fatal puncture ?

I asked earlier tonight if the sun's ultra violet radiation has any detrimental effect on the RCC's ? If so, exposure in space would exacerbate the problem. Possibly another factor in the grand scheme of things.

It makes sense that one of the most complex flying machines ever built would be brought down by multiple factors, instead of a single factor.
3,005 posted on 03/13/2003 12:51:06 AM PST by freepersup (And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
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To: XBob
Although highly anisotropic, graphite is very strong. The anisotropy is overcome by orienting the strands in different directions.

Can you explain the meaning of this word ?

3,006 posted on 03/13/2003 1:06:19 AM PST by freepersup (And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
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To: freepersup; NormsRevenge; snopercod
Every time a bird got successfully up it was a miracle, and successfully down, it was another miracle.

However, I still remember the story/poem 'From Ghen to Ex', 'for want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost', 'for want of a shoe, the horse was lost', 'for want of a horse, the rider was lost', 'for want of a rider, the battle was lost', and in the end the war was lost.

I will say this, however, while there are an amazing number of things which could go wrong, it is amazing that so many go right. Almost as amazing as the number of problems NASA never discusses, period, with anybody, particularly your management.
3,007 posted on 03/13/2003 1:17:29 AM PST by XBob
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To: All
From the NY Times - now the foam came from the right side of the shuttle???:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/13/national/nationalspecial/13SHUT.html?ex=1048136400&en=d2fedee0926ad954&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1

Shuttle Team Sought Satellite Assessment of Liftoff Damage

By EDWARD WONG

Two or three days after the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff, a group of NASA engineers asked the shuttle program manager to request the aid of United States spy satellites in determining the extent of debris damage to the shuttle's left wing, but the manager declined to do so, a senior NASA official said yesterday.

The official said the satellites would "absolutely" have helped the engineers measure any damage to the wing's protective heat tiles from debris slamming into them about 81 seconds after liftoff on Jan. 16.

He said Lambert Austin, an engineer at Johnson Space Center in Houston, had asked Ron D. Dittemore, the shuttle program manager, in a group meeting to obtain satellite images to help gauge the damage. Mr. Dittemore turned down the request, even though Mr. Austin was also speaking for several other engineers, the official said.

Mr. Austin and his colleagues were disappointed, the official said, especially because they believed Mr. Dittemore did not have the technical knowledge of imagery to determine whether the images would have been helpful.

Mr. Austin declined yesterday to comment.

Mr. Dittemore also would not comment, but a NASA spokesman said yesterday that Mr. Dittemore and other officials had decided that satellite images would not necessarily help determine damage.

It is unclear how Mr. Austin's request was related to another NASA request for imagery made around the same time to Defense Department officials, and later withdrawn via an e-mail message, which NASA publicly released last month.

The senior official also said some NASA engineers were now questioning whether the debris actually came from the large external fuel tank. The engineers are scrutinizing the solid rocket boosters to see whether the debris could have originated there, he said.

While the shuttle was in orbit, five Boeing engineers concluded in a report to NASA that the debris impact had not caused serious damage based on the assumption, now perhaps faulty, that the debris was a chunk of foam insulation from the external tank.

A central question in the investigation of the Columbia's break-up on Feb. 1 is whether the National Aeronautics and Space Agency and its contractors had enough information to accurately assess the tile damage. Many experts say damage from the debris may have weakened the wing and is the most obvious possible root cause of the accident, though there are many suspects.

A reconnaissance satellite could have been used to capture images of the tiles. Shortly after the Columbia accident, when aerospace experts outside NASA asked why the agency had not sought satellite assistance, Mr. Dittemore said such images might not have been sharp enough.

But the senior NASA official, who agreed to talk on the condition that his name not be used, said: "When a group of engineers puts forward a request, they're not doing it for grins and giggles. Within their minds, they thought that was a path that would resolve some final concerns. I don't know if it was a cost issue, a timing issue. I don't know if assets could not be arranged."

The official added, "If they had done that, we might know something."

It is unclear whether even a better determination of the tile damage would have helped NASA bring the astronauts home safely.

James Hartsfield, a NASA spokesman, said yesterday that there were discussions in the days after liftoff on whether to obtain satellite imagery. Officials decided not to, he said, because they were satisfied with the Boeing analysis and, as Mr. Dittemore indicated, they questioned the usefulness of the images that satellites would provide.

Mr. Hartsfield said someone at NASA did make an early request for imagery to the Defense Department. But he said that request, which "was not coordinated with the rest of the flight operations world," was withdrawn by another NASA official, Roger D. Simpson.

Mr. Hartsfield said he did not know who had made the request to the Defense Department. The National Reconnaissance Office, the government's main operator of spy satellites, is chartered under the Defense Department. The senior NASA official familiar with Mr. Austin's request said that as far as he knew, Mr. Austin did not contact a department official directly and dropped his request after Mr. Dittemore denied it.

Shuttle Team Sought Satellite Assessment of Liftoff Damage

(Page 2 of 2)

But in an e-mail message dated Jan. 29 and sent from one NASA official to another in Houston, Mr. Austin was mentioned as the person who might have initiated the request to the Defense Department. The author of the e-mail message, J. Steven Stich, wrote that Mr. Austin's involvement was a "rumor."

That e-mail message was released last month by NASA, along with one written by Mr. Simpson on Jan. 23 in which he thanked officials at the United States Strategic Command for considering a request to observe the Columbia for damage but criticized the request as not having gone through proper channels

Mr. Simpson apologized for any "inconvenience the cancellation of the request may have caused" and said that it had served only to "spin the community up about potential problems." He added that the shuttle was "in excellent shape."

The retraction of that request is now part of the investigation into the Columbia's break-up, said Laura J. Brown, a spokeswoman for the independent investigative panel.

The request Mr. Austin made of Mr. Dittemore was to get satellites from the National Reconnaissance Office to look at the shuttle's tiles. Richard Oborn, a spokesman for the office, declined to talk about the satellites' operations and capabilities, saying such information is classified.

Though NASA did not ask the reconnaissance office for the use of the satellites in assessing the Columbia's tile damage, it requested the agency's help after the accident to try and determine whether the shuttle was hit by space debris.

An expert on tile damage, Paul S. Fischbeck of Carnegie Mellon University, said NASA had made a mistake by not using satellites, ground telescopes or both to obtain images of the wing tiles while the Columbia was still in orbit.

"It would have made the decision-making process a lot clearer, and that's the goal," said Professor Fischbeck, who has co-written two NASA studies on tile damage. "They classified this as not a problem, I think, prematurely."

The senior NASA official briefed on Mr. Austin's request also said some engineers working on the Columbia investigation were now not certain at all that the debris that hit the tiles had come from the external tank. Last month, several NASA officials said the debris was probably hardened foam insulation from the area near two metal struts that connect the tank to the shuttle. In four other shuttle launchings, foam had broken off from the area and damaged the orbiter.

But a close look at the video of the launching does not show beyond a doubt that that was the case with the Columbia, even though the Boeing engineers clearly made that assumption, the senior official said. The only thing the video shows, he said, is that debris from the right side of the orbiter floated beneath the nose and re-emerged on the orbiter's left side. It then slammed into the left wing.

Engineers specializing in the solid rocket boosters are checking to see whether the debris could have broken off from one of the boosters, the official said. They are looking at any material that could have come loose, including a silicone-based heat shield called superlightweight ablator that covered two structures on the boosters called bolt catchers.

Each bolt catcher is the size of two large stacked cans. There is a catcher on each rocket booster near the forward area of the external tank. They catch explosive bolts that come loose when the rocket boosters separate from the external tank as the shuttle shoots into orbit.

The official said NASA engineers recently determined that the amount of loads and stresses they had thought the bolt catchers could handle had been exceeded during their actual uses. During manufacturing, the bolt catchers were tested without the ablator on them.

The consequences of the bolt catchers' exceeding their load and stress limits are unknown right now, and engineers will have to run more tests, the official said.

During a launching in 1988, the shuttle Atlantis sustained serious tile damage from debris flying off a solid rocket booster. In that case, the debris came from the nose cone of a rocket booster and knocked out most of one tile below the crew compartment, said Professor Fischbeck. The shuttle's aluminum skin experienced high heating, he said, but a steel frame around an access hatch in the area absorbed most of the heat.

===

Why are they so intent on avoiding testing and checking for the obvious - the impact of a 2.5 lb, suitcase sized block of foam on the tile? So far, the biggest they have tested, as far as I can tell, is about 1 cubic inch.

3,008 posted on 03/13/2003 1:27:05 AM PST by XBob
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To: freepersup
3006 - anisotropic - It means different strengths in different directions. For example, it is relatively easy to break wood, if you break it along the grain (the way the martial arts people do), but relatively hard to break it across the grain.

So, the reason plywood is so strong, is that it is made in thin slices/layers of wood glued together with the grains running at 90 degrees to each other, overcoming it's "anisotropicity".
3,009 posted on 03/13/2003 1:36:18 AM PST by XBob
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To: freepersup
here may be the answer for the future shuttles:

http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/GLTRS/browse.pl?2003/CR-2003-212100.html

TITLE AND SUBTITLE:
Micro-Optical Distributed Sensors for Aero Propulsion Applications

AUTHOR(S):
S. Arnold and V. Otugen

REPORT DATE:
January 2003

FUNDING NUMBERS:
WBS-22-708-87-23
NAG3-2679

PERFORMING ORGANIZATION NAME(S) AND ADDRESS(ES):
Polytechnic University
Six Metro Tech Center
Brooklyn, New York 11201

PERFORMING ORGANIZATION REPORT NUMBER:
E-13753

SPONSORING/MONITORING AGENCY NAME(S) AND ADDRESS(ES):
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Washington, DC 20546-0001

REPORT TYPE AND DATES COVERED:
Final Contractor Report

SPONSORING/MONITORING AGENCY REPORT NUMBER:
NASA CR-2003-212100

SUPPLEMENTARY NOTES:
Project Manager, Richard G. Seasholtz, Instrumentation and Controls Division, NASA Glenn Research Center, organization code 5520, 216-433-3754.

ABSTRACT:
The objective of this research is to develop micro-opto-mechanical system (MOMS)-based sensors for time- and space-resolved measurements of flow properties in aerodynamics applications. The measurement technique we propose uses optical resonances in dielectric micro-spheres that can be excited by radiation tunneling from optical fibers. It exploits the tunneling-induced and morphology-dependent shifts in the resonant frequencies. The shift in the resonant frequency is dependent on the size, shape, and index of refraction of the micro-sphere. A physical change in the environment surrounding a micro-bead can change one or more of these properties of the sphere thereby causing a shift in frequency of resonance. The change of the resonance frequency can be detected with high resolution by scanning a frequency-tunable laser that is coupled into the fiber and observing the transmission spectrum at the output of the fiber. It is expected that, in the future, the measurement concept will lead to a system of distributed micro-sensors providing spatial data resolved in time and space. The present project focuses on the development and demonstration of temperature sensors using the morphology-dependent optical resonances although in the latter part of the work, we will also develop a pressure sensor. During the period covered in this report, the optical and electronic equipment necessary for the experimental work was assembled and the experimental setup was designed for the single sensor temperature measurements. Software was developed for real-time tracking of the optical resonance shifts. Some preliminary experiments were also carried out to detect temperature using a single bead in a water bath.
3,010 posted on 03/13/2003 1:54:23 AM PST by XBob
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To: snopercod; bonesmccoy; John Jamieson
ping - numbers of new things above
3,011 posted on 03/13/2003 2:30:45 AM PST by XBob
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To: bonesmccoy
3000+ replys...congratulations.
3,012 posted on 03/13/2003 6:39:39 PM PST by tubebender (?)
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To: XBob
Re: 2982. My 'umble apology, I said airlock and meant Tunnel Adapter in the
case ov 0V-102. The jpeg at this web site shows the Tunnel Adapter being installed in another Orbiter, but OV-102 would be the same. The opening in the top is where the emergency EVA hatch is installed.
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/track-l.cfm?mediaid=938
Have a drawing of the payloads in OV-102/STS-107, but can't seem to paste it.
3,013 posted on 03/13/2003 6:43:50 PM PST by uralpatrol
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To: uralpatrol; Budge
thanks for the picture UP.

There has been a lot of discussion about space suits (how many or were there any aboard and EVA's) and yet we have seen no EVA hatch on STS-107.

Your drawing would be useful.

If you send it to Budge via e-mail at

budge

he can put it up for posting here.

Many thanks.

3,014 posted on 03/14/2003 2:17:14 AM PST by XBob
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To: XBob; brityank
Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...

NASA Planning Space Return by Fall

WASHINGTON -

NASA (news - web sites) is making plans to return the space shuttle to orbit as early has this fall and has instructed engineers to be prepared to make any "corrective actions" recommended by the board now investigating the Columbia tragedy.

William F. Readdy, NASA's associate administrator for space flight, issued a memo this week instructing agency officials to organize a team to plan for quickly making changes in the space shuttle — or its operations — so that the craft would be quickly ready to fly.

"The team will prepare for a safe return to flight as soon as practicable," the March 12 memo said. "As a goal, the SSP (Space Shuttle Program) shall plan for corrective actions and reviews which support a launch opportunity as early as the fall of 2003."

Readdy said that NASA will be guided by the recommendations of the Columbia Accident Investigation Board, which is studying the factors involved in the Feb. 1 destruction of Columbia in which the seven crew members perished.

The space shuttle disintegrated while returning to Earth, scattering debris across wide areas of Texas and Louisiana.

The memo instructed engineers to review specific problems that already are being investigation by the CAIB. These issues include foam insulation that peeled off the shuttle's external fuel tank and smashed into the craft's left wing and may have damaged the thermal protection tiles on that wing.

The return-to-flight team also is to review ways to inspect and repair damaged tiles while the shuttle is in orbit. Other issues to be studied are how the spacecraft is prepared for orbit, the policies on granting safety waivers and the methods used to identify in-flight safety problems and how those issues are relayed to top NASA management.

Readdy said NASA will not "prejudge" the conclusions of the accident review board, but will concentrate efforts on problems that the board has already publicly discussed, such as the foam insulation debris and possible broken tiles on the wing.

"That's the elephant in the room," said Readdy. "We can't ignore those."

NASA's plans call for the first mission to be directed toward continuing the construction of the International Space Station (news - web sites). The mission also would be used to rotate crew members now in the station.

Three crew members now on the station, Expedition 6, will be replaced by next month by two crew members to be flown to the space station aboard a Russian Soyuz spacecraft. The Expedition 6 crew will return to Earth on a Soyuz now docked at the station.

Readdy also explained how he came to turn down an offer from the Department of Defense (news - web sites) to take pictures of Columbia while the spacecraft was in orbit.

NASA engineers knew that foam insulation had smashed Columbia's left wing during its Jan. 16 launch, but an evaluation had concluded that the incident represented no risk to the spacecraft or the crew and it was expected the craft could land safely.

Readdy said that someone "from another agency" had offered to use "assets", presumably high resolution cameras on spy satellites, to examine the space shuttle. But Readdy said he turned down the offer because NASA engineers had already concluded there were no safety issues involved.

"This was a routine offer for support using a national asset," said Readdy. He said he turned it down because he knew the capabilities of the "asset" and did not think it would add to the understanding of any possible damage to Columbia.

"If I thought for a second that there was anything that would be added to the discussion, that safety of flight issues were involved, I would not have hesitated" to accept the offer, Readdy said.

Readdy said he knew about the capabilities of the "assets" and concluded that the pictures would not be beneficial to NASA.

"In my judgment, I didn't think that would have added to the (engineering) discussion," he said.

NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe said that such judgments are among the issues now being considered by the investigative panel.

___

On the Net:

NASA: www.nasa.gov

CAIB: http://www.caib.us/

3,015 posted on 03/14/2003 10:18:05 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: All
This just in (Friday March 14th, 02:40pm EST)
[b]William Readdy Talks About Spy Photgraphs[/b]
.... from Floridatoday.com
http://www.floridatoday.com/topstories/031403report.htm

[b]Senior NASA official admits he turned down offer to photograph damaged shuttle[/b]

By Larry Wheeler and Todd Halvorson
FLORIDA TODAY

WASHINGTON - A top NASA official disclosed Friday he personally turned down an offer from a government spy agency to use a top secret satellite to photograph suspected damage to the shuttle Columbia while it was still in orbit.

It was the first acknowledgement by a NASA official that the discussion of whether to capture an image of suspected shuttle damage reached the top echelons of the space agency.

William Readdy, a veteran shuttle pilot who is now associate administrator for space flight, said he met with a space agency colleague late in Columbia's two-week mission. The colleague informed Readdy someone at one of the nation's intelligence-gathering agencies had offered to provide NASA with close-up images of the orbiter.

At that point, shuttle program engineers had already decided there was no danger posed by damage caused at launch when debris broke off the immense external fuel tank and struck the orbiter's left wing.

Readdy explained that to accept the offer would have required him to ask the spy agency for "emergency" assistance. But he added he was restricted in what he could say Friday about the conversation because it might compromise government restrictions on sources and methods of intelligence gathering.

"There is an impression these (spy satellite) capabilities are available any time you want them," Readdy said. "These capabilities were not put in place to support the space program. For us to (ask) to change the capability is extraordinary, and we have to justify it."

Although Readdy would not identify the agency in question, it is likely the National Imagery and Mapping Agency, the super-secret spy agency that provides intelligence data to the Department of Defense, Central Intelligence Agency and other federal agencies.

"This offer was broached after the determination was made there was no safety of flight issue," Readdy said.

The NASA colleague then informed Readdy that the images could be obtained on a "not to interfere" basis, meaning the spy agency could acquire the shuttle images if it did not divert the satellite from its primary national security mission.

Readdy said he agreed to that because he thought the images might provide some useful information for later analysis.

The space agency official also revealed he gave a detailed account of his discussion on the spy satellite to the Columbia Accident Investigation Board, the House and Senate intelligence committees and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Inspector General. He wrote his account Feb. 3, just three days after Columbia burned up upon reentering Earth's atmosphere.

It is an important piece of the mosaic the independent investigation board is assembling as it attempts to identify the technical and programmatic elements that contributed to the loss of the orbiter and its crew of seven astronauts on Feb. 1.

Columbia accident investigators are apparently ready to find fault in the way both NASA and the Department of Defense handled informal requests for high-tech imagery of the $2 billion shuttle during its two-week stay in orbit.
Hal Gehman, the retired admiral and chairman of the Columbia Accident Investigation Board, indicated members on the panel are already convinced there was a serious breakdown in communications between NASA and the nation's intelligence-gathering community.

Some members of Congress are also upset that an opportunity was missed.

"What all this may indicate is that somebody made a bad decision," said Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., a senior Republican on the House Science Committee and chairman of the House Aeronautics and Space Subcommittee. "I will be looking very closely at this when the Gehman report comes out to see whether the experts tell me whether or not one or more individuals made indefensible decisions."

Some NASA insiders are already saying they always will wonder whether the agency did everything it could to analyze a potential problem, recognize the resulting danger and respond to a situation that appears to have doomed Columbia and its crew.

Readdy's comments Friday were also the first indication that congressional intelligence committees are involved in the Columbia investigation.
Rohrabacher said he was not aware Congress's intelligence panels were involved in the shuttle probe.

"It doesn't' bother me that other people would have this information," Rohrabacher said. "In the end I'm going to make sure I have all the information everyone else has. I expect it will be crossing my desk."

NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe defended Readdy and space agency officials Friday.

He said managers made the best decisions they could with the information at hand at the time. It is now in the accident investigation board's hands to determine if there was an error in judgment.

"When the full story is out, we're going to look at how we hold ourselves accountable and that accountability starts with me," O'Keefe said.
Earlier in the Columbia's mission, before Readdy was approached with the offer for a spy satellite photograph, mid-level NASA engineers had been pursuing Pentagon help in imaging the ship in orbit.

The engineers were surprised and frustrated with a management decision not to aggressively pursue the Pentagon's assistance, Florida Today has learned.

And despite NASA's insistence that such an effort would have been fruitless, at least one military space expert says that powerful U.S. photo reconnaissance satellites might have been able to spot obvious damage.
In response to questions from reporters, Readdy read from the statement that is now in the hands of the shuttle investigation board, NASA's Inspector General and the House and Senate intelligence committees.

Here is what Readdy said:

"An individual from another agency had been discussing the external debris issue on STS-107 ascent. He wanted to discuss an offer or support with respect to another agency with respect to observing the shuttle on orbit. NASA would have to request (the image) on an emergency or high priority basis. I explained that the external tank (issue) had been analyzed and reported to the mission management team and documents in the (MER) daily report dated (Jan.) 28. My understanding was that the Space Shuttle Program was well aware of those capabilities (spy satellite images) that could be provided by the other agency and it had concluded the offer would not contribute to the analysis. I related that to the individual as well as the conclusion reached by the mission management team that there was no safety of flight issue. For those reasons (there was) no rational to support a request for emergency or high priority support. He reiterated the other agency's desire to support on a not to interfere basis. I acknowledged the information and told him again this was not viewed as a safety of flight issue. I informed him to request the (observation) on a not to interfere basis."

CFF
3,016 posted on 03/14/2003 3:16:28 PM PST by CFF
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To: NormsRevenge; XBob; freepersup; Budge; bonesmccoy
Been browsing around playing catch-up; work is really starting to interfere with my FReeping!

Atlantis on pad Back to the STS assy, I found the pic at right of Atlantis. (There are some larger graphics there too.) As I mentioned somewhere earlier, the foam block starts off well above the orbiter's forward connect point on the ET. This shot also shows that block (at the right in the pic) with the white splat below that XBob said he thinks is an antennae connector. If that block were to come loose, the slipstream would carry it into the path of the left nose/wing chine, as the video from 'Florida Today' shows.

A note on the seeming differences between the Atlantis wing leading edge and the one's I've seen of Columbia's:
The RCC appears to extend deeper onto the wing at the juncture to the glove area. Is it also 'dished', as in a hollow (concave) grind on a knife-blade at that knee joint, or is that just a trick of the light and rendition? If so, I expect it was done to channel/adjust the vortex flow during re-entry.

Someone else said that the CAIB was looking at some foam exiting the boosters; there is a patch near the top outer side -- the one on the right is more noticeable. (Could that be the "six-inch block" you questioned, Bob?) That too could be a source, as the slipstream would again steer it into the path of the orbiter.

Much as I want to see NASA return to flight; not at the expense of a rushed investigation or misapplied scientific principles. Man will never make a space vehicle that is 100% safe; but that's not to say that Six-Sigma should not be strived for.

I also think that standard SOP should include a close inspection of the craft on orbit, even if it only provides peace of mind that nothing seems amiss.

Also, I didn't post it, but the William Harwood at CBSNews has an Updated Timeline - Rev.H; nothing new, just refinements of some timings.

3,017 posted on 03/15/2003 11:57:03 AM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional.)
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To: brityank
Great photo!

Thanks. One can never have too many bookmarks. The GRIN website at NASA .. I like it!

This is one of the great things about a forum like this. It is as technical as you want to make it or not.

3,018 posted on 03/15/2003 12:57:37 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... What would Mahatma Gandhi drive?)
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To: brityank
Thanks for monitoring the NASA timeline rev's. It's great to see the documentation of our original hypotheses from six weeks ago.

The guys on FR are superb. The mix of technical, political, and engineering work has been a great example of cooperation.

Lately, I've been monitoring the threads on WMD and Bioterror. So, you're ping list on NASA CAIB findings have been most helpful at keeping tabs on things.

take care!
3,019 posted on 03/15/2003 2:46:04 PM PST by bonesmccoy (Defeat the terrorists... Vaccinate!)
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To: bonesmccoy
Just a bump to keep this thread on my reply board.BTTT............................
3,020 posted on 03/15/2003 3:54:48 PM PST by Cold Heat
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