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Observation on TPS damage on Orbiter
NASA photos | 2-3-03 | BoneMccoy

Posted on 02/04/2003 1:34:19 AM PST by bonesmccoy

In recent days the popular media has been focusing their attention on an impact event during the launch of STS-107. The impact of External Tank insulation and/or ice with the Orbiter during ascent was initially judged by NASA to be unlikely to cause loss of the vehicle. Obviously, loss of the integrity of the orbiter Thermal Protection System occured in some manner. When Freepers posted the reports of these impacts on the site, I initially discounted the hypothesis. Orbiters had sustained multiple impacts in the past. However, the size of the plume in the last photo gives me pause.

I'd like to offer to FR a few observations on the photos.

1. In this image an object approximately 2-3 feet appears to be between the orbiter and the ET.

2. In this image the object appears to have rotated relative to both the camera and the orbiter. The change in image luminosity could also be due to a change in reflected light from the object. Nevertheless, it suggests that the object is tumbling and nearing the orbiter's leading edge.

It occurs to me that one may be able to estimate the size of the object and make an educated guess regarding the possible mass of the object. Using the data in the video, one can calculate the relative velocity of the object to the orbiter wing. Creating a test scenario is then possible. One can manufacture a test article and fire ET insulation at the right velocity to evaluate impact damage on the test article.

OV-101's port wing could be used as a test stand with RCC and tile attached to mimic the OV-102 design.

The color of the object seems inconsistent with ET insulation. One can judge the ET color by looking at the ET in the still frame. The color of the object seems more consistent with ice or ice covered ET insulation. Even when accounting for variant color hue/saturation in the video, the object clearly has a different color characteristic from ET insulation. If it is ice laden insulation, the mass of the object would be significantly different from ET insulation alone. Since the velocity of the object is constant in a comparison equation, estimating the mass of the object becomes paramount to understanding the kinetic energy involved in the impact with the TPS.

3. In this image the debris impact creates a plume. My observation is that if the plume was composed primarily of ET insulation, the plume should have the color characteristics of ET insulation. This plume has a white color.

Unfortunately, ET insulation is orange/brown in color.

In addition, if the relative density of the ET insulation is known, one can quantify the colorimetric properties of the plume to disintegrating ET insulation upon impact.

Using the test article experiment model, engineers should fire at the same velocity an estimated mass of ET insulation (similar to the object seen in the still frame) at the test article. The plume should be measured colorimetrically. By comparing this experimental plume to the photographic evidence from the launch, one may be able to quantify the amount of ET insulation in the photograph above.

4. In this photo, the plume spreads from the aft of the orbiter's port wing. This plume does not appear to be the color of ET insulation. It appears to be white.

This white color could be the color of ice particles at high altitude.

On the other hand, the composition of TPS tiles under the orbiter wings is primarily a low-density silica.

In the photo above, you can see a cross section of orbiter TPS tile. The black color of the tile is merely a coating. The interior of the tile is a white, low-density, silica ceramic.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: columbiaaccident; nasa; shuttle; sts; sts107
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To: bonesmccoy
The only video that I am aware of was shot by a kid it AZ. It is his vid that the time stamped pic came from. The California guy's pics are not public. He said he thought the things he saw were tiles. They were small and he had seen them come off before. The reason is that they donot hold the heat long and wink out.

The piece the kid saw, was not in that category. It was large and illuminated the contrail. It appeared rectagular to me, but not sure.

1,601 posted on 02/13/2003 4:35:26 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: wirestripper
FYI.......The photo showing the flareing object with the 7:55.53 time stamp is a capture from the video those kids took. Their location was in AZ.

thanks, that fits the time line better - perhaps that was the door or the glove/web.

I still haven't been able to find/display the video with the big flare. Some of the links I have gotten won't play.
1,602 posted on 02/13/2003 4:52:34 PM PST by XBob
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To: XBob
What flare, are we talking about?
1,603 posted on 02/13/2003 4:55:30 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: montag813
You've been flamed enough for your comment. I would not go that far, but it was obvious to me from the initial press briefing that he was attempting a "limited modified hang-out."

It really torques me that people will go down clawing the concrete with their fingernails rather than just say "We had the choice of a desperate and dangerous attempt to save the crew, or hope that things were at the most optimisitic end of the spectrum and try to land normally. It didn't work out, here's my resignation, thank you for your time."
1,604 posted on 02/13/2003 5:12:36 PM PST by eno_
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To: bonesmccoy
I don't think the port landing gear could have deployed before the end given what was going on, though its opening right at the end, over Texas, is far more plausible than earlier deployment over California, Nevada or New Mexico. I was wrong about the wind pressure keeping the door closed. John Jamieson has explained how the effective wind pressure at that alititude and velocity was less than that experienced for the orbiter's landing speed at sea level, but there were supersonic shock waves and the 3,000 degree F temperature involved too.

I suggest we consider, though, that the port wing was rapidly breaking up at the end, starting with the leading edge and heading aft, and that the evidence of the gear box door opening, and the landing gear deploying, is better explained by the breakup reaching the gear box area.

1,605 posted on 02/13/2003 5:14:06 PM PST by Thud
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To: Jeff Gordon
I found the graphic on the following thread and credit goes to jlogajan- It is helpful having the superimposed shuttle in looking at the magnified image, which is somewhat distorted by heat, distance, speed, atmosphere, and last but not least, physical deformity.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/842536/posts
1,606 posted on 02/13/2003 5:18:06 PM PST by freepersup (And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
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To: bonesmccoy
1587 - "Don't laugh XBob.

TPS did it's job. Why are you and Jamieson so interested in embarassing the Rockwell/Boeing TPS guys? "



The TPS obviously failed, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion.

We are trying to figure out why.

As I told you before, I am an OIL man, not a NASA/CONTRACTOR man. I am not trying to blame anyone, by company or system, just find the cause.

This attitude is why I was so glad to get back to OIL, as the culture of 'blame' is rampant in the space program.

I was also trained in accident/loss investigation, to find the real original cause, and contributing causes.

And personally, I see numbers of unnecessarily risky structural design flaws, old ones, 30 years old even, as contributing/compounding the accident.


1,607 posted on 02/13/2003 5:22:42 PM PST by XBob
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To: Budge
I've been studying the large images of the shuttle which I posted today, and I don't see the tiles installed as coming anywhere close to the leading edge of the glove as is potrayed by this graph.

There does appear to be significant wrapping or cupping of the RCC material along the underside of leading edge of the left wing. The arrow in the graph points to this area and is annotated as HRSI.

RCC's # 1-4, have a somewhat narrower underside profile compared to RCC's installed sequentially along the wing edge extending to the wing tip. . I made an issue out of this design based on the graph of tile patterns. Final operational design appears to be noticeably different than what is depicted in the graph. It fooled me-
1,608 posted on 02/13/2003 5:31:14 PM PST by freepersup (And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
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To: XBob
There is nothing like having one side's engineering expert blast every attorney in the courtroom for misuse of engineering terms while the judge sits there and grins.

"I was also trained in accident/loss investigation, to find the real original cause, and contributing causes."

1,609 posted on 02/13/2003 5:31:40 PM PST by Thud
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To: bonesmccoy
1590 - "XBob says the orbiter is overhead. "

The orbiter flight path passed overhead of the camera. For it to be exactly overhead at the moment of the picture would be a miracle.

The camera was not like looking from Los Angeles at the orbiter passing over San Francisco. It was lookng at a basically direct overhead pass.

spunkets earlier (around 1225-1250) did a very interesting analysis and drawing, indicatiting that the bird was flying skewed at about 11 degrees off longitudinal from it's trajectory.
1,610 posted on 02/13/2003 5:33:54 PM PST by XBob
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To: Thud
Your analysis has merit and is at the least, one of the leading contenders for what occurred.

Has there been any commentary on the explosive bolts ? An ignition brought on prematurely by plasma, resulting in the cargo door becoming breached, or some other wheel well damage set off by a dominoe effect ?
1,611 posted on 02/13/2003 5:41:28 PM PST by freepersup (And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
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To: XBob
North of town (Flagstaff, AZ.) are the Waputki Indian Ruins, a significant Anasazi and Sinagua community of the 12th to 14th centuries.

This is where the two Arizona kids filmed the shuttle's overhead flight from.
1,612 posted on 02/13/2003 5:49:13 PM PST by freepersup (And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
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To: Budge
Credit goes to jlogajan and the large shuttle images were posted by finnman69. Thanks just the same. They seemed to fit in here...
1,613 posted on 02/13/2003 5:52:18 PM PST by freepersup (And this expectation will not disappoint us.)
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To: wirestripper
1603 - "What flare, are we talking about?"



I honestly don't know. Shortly after the accident, 1-2 days, I saw a video on TV, which reminded me of the war, one of our aircraft dropping a series of magnesium flares. (3-6), there were small ones, quickly going out, (like flares to throw SAMS off track) and there was a big one (like the flares for illuminating ground operations - much more persistent, as they dropped by parachute), about 20 times the size of the small ones. I forget the exact sequence. But there was a major difference in size of one in particular.

I don't know where the video was taken or when, and I haven't seen it since. It could be the one by the kids in AZ, perhaps not. But I haven't seen it since then. But I have had a number of links to videos which wouldn't work for me.
1,614 posted on 02/13/2003 6:04:15 PM PST by XBob
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To: All; bonesmccoy; snopercod
Some questions .. Im trying to fill my knowledge cap. I haven't read this whole thread yet either, but hope to soon. Thanks in advance if someone can confirm any of the following.

The shuttle is launched with the tires uninflated, if I am not mistaken.

At what point in the re-entry process are they re-inflated, relative to the shuttle's re-entry timeline?

I am not clear if the tires had already been re-inflated when the loss occurred of vehicle.

Is it after falling below so many hundred thousand feet or 8-?

Does this process and its initiation ever vary?

What type of mechanism/mechinery is used and how is the process initiated, etc?

Any pyros involved in opening the wheel doors?

1,615 posted on 02/13/2003 6:12:09 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: All

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1,616 posted on 02/13/2003 6:13:00 PM PST by diotima (****DO NOT TAUNT HAPPY FUN BALL****)
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To: Thud
1605 - "I suggest we consider, though, that the port wing was rapidly breaking up at the end, starting with the leading edge and heading aft, and that the evidence of the gear box door opening, and the landing gear deploying, is better explained by the breakup reaching the gear box area."



I agree, and would add, that perhaps the attitude controls (thrusters and elevons) finally lost it, and the whole craft skewed and broke up.
1,617 posted on 02/13/2003 6:13:29 PM PST by XBob
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FYI - From Reuters

Hot Plasma May Have Invaded Shuttle -Investigators ..

By Deborah Zabarenko

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The extreme heat observed on the shuttle Columbia's left side during its fatal re-entry could have been caused by hot plasma penetrating the craft's wheel well, independent investigators said on Thursday.

Photo
Reuters Photo

Plasma is the super-heated gas that surrounded the shuttle as it streaked toward a landing at Kennedy Space Center (news - web sites) on Feb. 1. Plasma typically envelops a fast-descending space shuttle, but this time, preliminary analysis indicates it may have gotten inside the spacecraft's protective surface.

"Preliminary analysis by a NASA (news - web sites) working group this week indicates that the temperature indications seen in Columbia's left wheel well during entry would require the presence of plasma," the Columbia Accident Investigation Board said in a statement forwarded by NASA.

However, the board said the heat was so excessive that it could not have been caused by the absence of just one missing tile in the last minutes of flight.

This is significant since questions have centered on the possibility that some of Columbia's heat-shielding tiles were knocked off by a piece of foam insulation that fell off the shuttle's external fuel tank about 80 seconds after launch, apparently striking the left wing.

The board said investigators were looking at other ways the shuttle's skin might have been breached to let plasma into the wheel well area or elsewhere in the wing.

They also discounted fears that a problem with the landing gear on the left side of the spacecraft might have caused the shuttle to disintegrate over Texas, as a NASA engineer suggested in an e-mail two days before the shuttle's demise.

PROBLEMS ON COLUMBIA'S LEFT SIDE

"Other flight data including gear position indicators and drag information does not support the scenario of an early deployment of the left gear," the board said.

The board's statement was distributed by NASA, which has already come under criticism for failing to keep its distance from the independent inquiry that was appointed just hours after Columbia broke apart.

After a bruising four-hour congressional hearing on Wednesday with just one witness -- NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe -- the space agency amended the investigative board's charter to address concerns about its independence.

The search for debris from Columbia continued in Texas, where a preliminary analysis of low-frequency sound wave recordings indicated the shuttle exploded between the cities of Amarilla and Lubbock, about 330 miles west of Dallas.

The data from sensitive devices that record infrasound, or low-frequency sound waves inaudible by humans, was sent to NASA, said Eugene Herrin, a geophysicist at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

Herrin said data indicates a single explosion over Texas. A monitoring station in New Mexico showed the spacecraft as being intact as it passed over that state, he said.

Scientists operate a worldwide system of infrasound detectors that record items such as sonic booms. The devices look for any disturbance in the atmosphere such as a nuclear blast, meteor flights or even hurricanes.

Herrin said the infrasound likely recorded the moment when the shuttle blew apart, but the findings were preliminary.

The search on the ground shifted to Anderson County, west of Nacogdoches, where most of the reported shuttle debris fell. Officials said they have likely found more parts from the shuttle's wings and are checking serial numbers on recovered parts to see if they came from the left wing.


1,618 posted on 02/13/2003 6:23:12 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: XBob
It could be the one by the kids in AZ, perhaps not. But I haven't seen it since then

Yes, that is the AZ video. I studied it, but could not save it, and my links do not work anymore either. I believe the footage has been zapped. Or the damn Real Player has crapped.

I checked the T.V. stations archive, and have not found it. My player refuses to play any of it anyway.

1,619 posted on 02/13/2003 6:23:41 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: NormsRevenge
I read somewhere that they have the ability to add nitrogen to the tires to get the pressure up prior to landing.

There are pyros on the latch that holds the wheel assy. in the up position. The door opens by a mechanical linkage which unlocks the door as the wheels begin to drop. No pyro on the door it'self.

1,620 posted on 02/13/2003 6:29:39 PM PST by Cold Heat
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