From NASA engineering film: Sequential pix of debris hitting Columbia's wing

NASA via CNN Online & Yahoo News ^ | 2/3/03 | Wolfstar

[Wolfstar]

Released Monday morning, a high-speed NASA engineering film shows a piece of debris falling from the large external tank on the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff and hitting the orbiter's left wing. Bear in mind that these are extreme close-ups of a high-speed event. In the top couple of photos, you see only the top of the broken-off piece. Most of it is in the shadows. Depending on which clip you see and how slowly it is run, to the uninitiated person's eye, it can look either like the debris strikes the wing hard enough to pulverize the debris, or the debris strikes a glancing blow and bounces off in the direction of the main and booster engine exhaust.

[PatriotGames]

Things were different then. If Glenn's space capsule was compromised there was nothing anyone could do. He was flying a rock and had no controls whatsoever. He had no supplies and there was literally no chance for a rescue.


I wasn't answering the question as to whether or not anything could be done. I also was not commenting on any of the technical stuff.

I was answering your question about whether or not they would tell the crew if they felt a disaster looming.

They did NOT tell Glenn. Do you think that they would tell 7 astronuats in a Shuttle? I think NOT.

[Howlin]

Hey, thanks. That scroll thing is COOL!

[Ford Fairlane]

"There was nothing they could do"

This is BS

I have done a lot of contract engineering in industry, including work on dust collection systems. We used to coat the inside of dust collection cyclones (the big ice cream cone shaped things on top of factories) with a mixture of ceramic pellets & epoxy.

This product was originally designed to patch the Space Shuttle if tiles fell off during launch.

NASA quit carrying the patch material on board because it took up weight & they thought spacewalks were too dangerous.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

The black item that stuck up was the major problem for me. Poohbah said that must be the vent pipe for the still.

Or the steam vent. Could be the photo is from one of the earlier steam-powered space shuttles.

[glock rocks]

oh, no. i meant nothing by the pic. just a link to the thread about finding the nose cone. kinda somber, actually.

[Jael]

No honey, you were corrected twice on things you INSISTED were true. You never spoke up about being wrong.

No one I know from NASA has corrected me about anything.

I KNOW that the lift off was being monitored. Why you inist that it wasn't is your boat to row.

Seven Americans died. I take that very seriously. I will never compromise on the truth.

Now, if you have something to say I was wrong about, then get with it. I have quoted NASA alone in what I have said.

[meyer]

Interesting post re. the environmentally friendly foam.

[patriot5186]

Well said. Where was there contingency plan for a bad tile? I hope it involved more than crossing fingers.

[Ronin]

You may be right on that point, but we had at least 3 possibilities that could have been explored. The ISS, waiting for Atlantis, or asking the Russians to send up a couple of empty Soyuz. Now, maybe for a variety of reasons none of those options would have been doable, but I want to hear them say it.

I also want to hear them explain, if none of those three options were possible, WHY they didn't make a contingency plan that would have included at least one of them before sending Columbia into orbit.

What bothers me about this whole thing is the way everyone is/has been preaching this "they were doomed from the moment the debris hit" line. I don't buy that at all.

There is a LOT to this accident that stinks and I think heads should roll!

[Hermann the Cherusker]

It's the relative velocity of the obiter vs debris that's important, not the rel.vel of those things vs earth. To know how fast the debris was going relative to the obiter, neglecting wind, you have to know the time, or distance the stuff fell(decelerated), both are known, and the acceleration of the rocket. I saw an est that it was about 80-150mph, but I didn't check it.

The debris doesn't have the hardness and density of brick though. It's either foam, or a thick frost layer.

Check out what can happen in a tornado, with winds of around 200 mph. Things like 2x4's get punctured through thick brick walls, straw and twigs can punch holes through glass, etc. Anything hitting a brittle ceramic material at speed is bad news.

[cinFLA]

Excellent point. I hope everyone can see past the talking heads and the finger pointers out there and realize that despite all of the technology involved, there are still accidents that can and do happen.

But this is NOT the first time this has happened.

[Jael]

NASA said the insulation broke off from where the shuttle affixes to the fuel tank on the left side.

It is a spray on foam insulation that hardens after being applied.

[Howlin]

Actually, Mr.ConfettiMan corrected you about several things.

And if you'll point out where I was wrong, I'll be glad to show you wher I corrected the record when I was PROVEN wrong.

[Howlin]

LOL!

[Jael]

Sorry to correct you. It has been comfirmed as being insulation. They knew that when they started running all the "possiblity test" to determine what kind of damage it might have done.

They concluded, as Dittmore said, that it would not have been significant damage. And he also said, even if it was, there was nothing they could do about it.

[Action-America]

Yes, there was nothing they could do after it reentered orbit. But before?

DUH!

They have only said about a 1000 times that the shuttle had neither the fuel to reach the Space Station nor the air to wait for a rescue.

Keep in mind that preparing for a space flight is not like packing the trunk of your Toyota.  If they started today and had a rocket available and unfueled, it would take weeks to launch an unmanned rescue rocket with the appropriate gear.  If, like the Russian rocket, the rocket was already fueled, it would take even longer, since it would have to be unfueled, before changing the payload - that is unless you want an even greater disaster on the ground.

Also, keep in mind that space and weight are at a premium on the Shuttle.  Considering the significant size of EVA equipment (that must be kept in the crew compartment) it's not suprising that they would leave it out, since it would make room for several more experiments.

Furthermore, even if they had done a space walk, the only positive purpose that it would have served is to give us a better idea of what happened, after the breakup, since, as I pointed out above, they had neither the fuel to reach the Space Station nor the air to wait for rescue.  Repair or rescue was not an option.  On the other hand, if they had done a space walk, as you suggest, it would have had one other very undesirable effect.  Instead of feeling triumphant until the last moments of their lives, the crew would have been worrying about a fate that they had no control over.  If you think that would have been better, then I feel sorry for you.

Personally, I can think of only one better way to go than as a hero, serving all mankind, with the whole world watching.  That would be the way Bruce Willis' character, Harry Stamper, went out in "Armageddon" - i.e. saving the world in the process.

Those folks were heroes.  They gladly did what they did, knowing that they were risking their lives.  The last thing that they would want is to have the Shuttle Program suffer a needless delay as a result of what happened to them.

[Jael]

Excellent post, thanks so much!!!!

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

If a chunck of ice formed behind the faom, and broke free, striking the wing, then who knows. It is interesting that the left wing is the locus of much speculation regarding the crash, whether due to failure of the protective tiles or other events. Seems awfully coincidental. We have the launch video showing material striking the left wing. There is an astronomer who witnessed the orbiter passing over California who observed "fire" under the craft and "flaming objects" trailing behind. The press can spin, but if these are facts the speculation that one could entertain is IMO reasonable.

[Jael]

Don't start making things up. I posted from NASA. Deal with the real.

[southland]

I agree with your post. We have no business flying foreigners and others just for publicity. We get too much negative press when something screws up. Lokk at Challenger... we killed a school teacher.. what for??
This time we killed an Isralei. and again what for??