From NASA engineering film: Sequential pix of debris hitting Columbia's wing

NASA via CNN Online & Yahoo News ^ | 2/3/03 | Wolfstar

[Wolfstar]

Released Monday morning, a high-speed NASA engineering film shows a piece of debris falling from the large external tank on the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff and hitting the orbiter's left wing. Bear in mind that these are extreme close-ups of a high-speed event. In the top couple of photos, you see only the top of the broken-off piece. Most of it is in the shadows. Depending on which clip you see and how slowly it is run, to the uninitiated person's eye, it can look either like the debris strikes the wing hard enough to pulverize the debris, or the debris strikes a glancing blow and bounces off in the direction of the main and booster engine exhaust.

[KSCITYBOY]

I watched a former shuttle astronaut on PBS saying even if they knew there was a problem a day after liftoff they had very limited or any options - Their orbit was too low to go to the space station and too low to maintain with limited supplies etc... He made very calm and rational comments about the incident - very logical and very convincing. Much different than some of the accusations steeped in uninformed bais I have read over the past couple of days at the du and sadly from a few posters here.

[glock rocks]

the brick's acceleration vector was opposite to that of the craft. at mach 3, that would mean a 2000 mph wind (pause here with me and stick your hand out the sunroof of my corvette) would be acting on the debris in an opposite direction to that of the craft.

now... that was a good sized chunk of whatever it was... and i would guess it would accelerate to some substantial velocity with a 2000 mph wind on it in 40 meters, then striking a body traveling in the opposite direction... the relative difference in velocities could be significant.

momentum... mass (we don't know) X velocity (we don't know).

but... my guess is that even a couple pounds of whatever it was, would be cranking with whatever mass it had... and very well could have raised some serious havoc.

i've seen 200 mph winds stuff a 2X4 through a car.

[Howlin]

In the press conference today they said the ONLY thing they could have done if they thought it was going to be a problem was bring the vehicle in and have the crew bail out at a certain height. He said there was no doubt that even in that scenario they would have lost the vehicle.

That was ALL speculation on his part IF THEY HAD KNOWN THEY HAD A BIG PROBLEM.

[El Gato]

Now you've done it. MOOSE, indeed.

Can I help it if that's what GE called it? I must admit, when I saw that after searching based on my vague recollection, I couldn't resist. :) This thread needed a little levity, as we all do this week.

[Howlin]

Bump!

[meyer]

However stupid the design of the shuttle is, it has worked expensively but safely for over 20 years. The point most people seem to be missing is that spaceflight should be so common by now that there should be flights every day and accidents (unfortunately) occurring all the time. Travel by airplane is quite safe, yet many people fear it because of the spectacular occasional accident.

I don't think the design of the shuttle is stupid at all. They took technology of the time and made something that worked and worked quite well. And, they've been improving on it over time. One of the reasons that there are so many different types of tile is that there are various needs - there is no single type of ceramic tile that meets all needs concurrently.

No, I think the shuttle is a long series of problems that were overcome, sometimes ingeniously, sometimes brutally, sometimes with math, and sometimes with simple commmon sense. The ship was a series of works, not a single contiguous design. Because that's how new things are developed.

The next models will be better than the last. 7 people have lost their lives in a risky business - it is the nature of NASA to learn from this and improve the program. In the scientific sense, this may be a quantum leap. In the human sense, it is a tragedy.

[altair]

That many different tiles takes up space and weight and costs delta-V. The space shuttle is already too expensive in terms of cost/weight to lift things into orbit, carrying all those backup tiles would make the problem worse.

[Leisler]

On one side they say there is nothing they could do, on the other side they say wait for the investigation.

[El Gato]

There are too many different types and shapes of tiles to facilitate a repair. They'd have to bring so much 'repair tile' that there would be no room for anything else.

Maybe, but also maybe there would be to use something that would be good for "one time use" only and could be trimmed to fit? I have no idea, that's pretty far from my fields of expertise.

[DoughtyOne]

Take a look at this photo.  Please note that the debris is partially obscured behind the wing.
In the video of this event, the debris comes down behind the wing.  It strikes the wing, the debris and pulverised material shoots out afterwards.  But the debris comes out at a higher angle than the pulverised material.

No it certainly didn't hit the wing at a 90 degree angle, but it did catch on the wing, shooting it out instead of just brushing by the wing.

Does this picture taken from a long range lense depict a piece of debris that is 12" in size to you?  Start comparing it to the wing.  Then compare it to other things.  The black part of the nose is more than two feet tall.  The debris is at least half that size.

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

The democrats have moved on. They just about skipped days of blaming NASA for this tragedy. They are now blaming The President of The United States.

[DoughtyOne]

Well probably as qualified as you are to state that NASA is infallible.

[altair]

If it looks bad then fly to the space station and wait for another shuttle.

There were neither space suits to go outside, nor enough delta-V to make it up to the space station. Two good reasons to have enough space suits for every crew member (remember life boats and the Titanic?) and more space stations.

[Jhoffa_]

That many different tiles takes up space and weight and costs delta-V. The space shuttle is already too expensive in terms of cost/weight to lift things into orbit, carrying all those backup tiles would make the problem worse.

No, no.. You misunderstand me.

It's like a master key.

Carry several large tiles and THEN cut them to fit.

(Now, adhesion is your problem.. I am just the tile guy. Hey!)

[meyer]

But we have 15 billion over 5 years for AIDS in Africa. (Sigh)

I cannot argue with that. Throwing such money after purely political goals is such a waste - NASA, on the other hand actually does something with the money tossed its way. They may not be as efficient as Intel or IBM, but their product is of much greater importance.

[El Gato]

How could you know the size and how fast the object is going?

That's easy, if you know how big the shuttle is and scale everything you see to that. Then you time how long the object takes to go a known distance. I admit I didn't do that, not explicitly that is, but accepted 20" as "about right" given the size of the shuttle and the size of the object relative to the shuttle.

[CharacterCounts]

Once again, you are failing to understand that the air is moving past the shuttle at 1000 mph plus. The object takes on the speed of the air quickly, as in a sail. You hood blows up on your care. The hood was traveling at the exact same speed of the car. But in the wind which catches it, that hood assumes the speed of the air in less than the arc accompanying five feet of motion. Don't tell me that something falling off the top of the tank would only be going 40 to 150 mphs. I'm sorry but that is absurd.

I am certaily no expert, but if the debris was flying past the shuttle at 1,000 mph, would both the debris and the windows of the shuttle be relatively in focus?

[TheBattman]

So the foam insulation problem is a case of trying to be environmentally concious? So we now can blame the enviro-Nazis for the Columbia accident?

As much as the idea of passing the blame to those nut-jobs, I would think that NASA would have gained a clue after something like 20+ missions with foam insulation loss being a problem.

[Light Speed]

Nasa confirmed today during a segment on CNN that a solid rocket booster on a previous STS flight had impacted the shuttle when it detatched...it raked the bottom of the shuttle...so much so, they assigned satillite to observe the damage via photo imaging.
Damaged..this STS mission returned safely.
Other shuttles have returned with numerous tiles missing..some shuttles have had over 50 impact strikes from debrie and cosmic..returning safely.

On STS 109...Columbia March 2002...Columbia suffered a pitch/yaw thruster failure...thruster pack is 4 ports..this occured on pre-test prior to de-orbit burn.
Columbia had its guts ripped out,,,re-wired..new monitiors..computer suite...electrical trunking.
After STS 109 in March..Nasa discovered that Columbia had cracks in flow system to engine.
Again..Columbia is torn apart for complex Tungsten weld on flow system cracks.
Columbia had been exstensively re-fit for 1-1/2 years prior to STS 109...too heavy for Space station dock..Columbia was mod to low orbit insertion ..Space hab and Micro Gravity test.
Columbia is in Com link..she is in process of cycling to compensate for wing drag..some sensor activity..then gone.
Hypothetical
Columbia suffers catastrophic system failure which silences the com link..either detonation..or
Columbia is pitched into configuration..either by computer error as per cycling on drag..or is sent into wrong configuration on s turns.
Columbia could have been rolled..inverted by computer ..the shuttles crew cabin facing the earth on descent into the heat barrier....ionization terminating com link.
something happened suddenly.
Un less an explosion took place in Columbias wing..throwing it over..the shuttle should still have been in com link as wing deteriorated...some comment from crew as wing began to fail and send Columbia into a different return configuration.
Nasa said the Columbia was like a new shuttle...having only one flight prior.
Its my opinion Columbia's computer failed in the wing drag cycling..inverting Columbia..or failing to put her into a recoverable mode during turns.
The fact she dropped out of com link is the highest information point..unless Nasa has other com link timeline they have not released to the public.
I am by now means an engineer..so the question remains..would Columbia be silenced by a wing breaking up..with not a few seconds more com ..or did something more catastrophic occur...suddenly ..unrecoverable.

[TheBattman]

Why do people keep posting this fake/fraud poor photoshop-doctored picture?