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BREAKING: NBC News finds Jan 30 NASA Memo showing serious concern about tile damage!
NBC News
| February 3, 2003
| Jay Barbree
Posted on 02/03/2003 6:03:22 AM PST by Timesink
click here to read article
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To: TLBSHOW; Howlin; All
TLB-----I posted this to you:
To: TLBSHOW
No.....until proven differently, Don Nelson is NOT a hero. You do NOT know the accuracy of his report. You just THINK you do.
To me, at this time, Don Nelson is no different than a Scott Ritter---in the early days of his rantings. And apparently, you think the same as you are completely, 100% convinced that all that Don Nelson says is the absolute truth. You need to learn the benefits of cognitive thinking and try developing some independent, analytical skills rather than reading something and KABOOM...it becomes YOUR truth.
I, at least, am willing to give the experts the time necessary to gather and analyze data. You are just rubberstamping without analyzing. One has to wonder if this is an "intellectual processing" problem on your part, or whether you just glom onto ANY theory that purports to discredit this administration(since the memo was sent to the WH)---and NASA.
I can't even feel sorry for you anymore.
733 posted on 02/03/2003 3:52 PM PST by justshe
TLB-----you pinged Gracey to respond to me so she could 'fill me in' on Don Nelson. For emphasis here is her response.To: justshe
I agree with your thinking. It's always easy to agree with the Don Nelson's AFTER an occurrence. Nothing he proposed would have saved the Orbiter, if the foam caused the problem. Don Nelson does not understand cost/benefit anaysis.
I'm on my way to Houston for the Memorial.
813 posted on 02/03/2003 7:57 PM PST by Gracey
TLB--------will you KINDLY shut up now?
821
posted on
02/03/2003 8:11:55 PM PST
by
justshe
(Eliminate Freepathons! Become a monthly donor. Only YOU can prevent Freepathons!)
To: Magnum44
In additin to the fact that the shuttle orbits 'upside down', which means all we'd see, if we could, would be the top... ;0)
822
posted on
02/03/2003 8:12:03 PM PST
by
Chad Fairbanks
('I WISH, at some point, that you would address those damned armadillos in your trousers." - JustShe)
To: Gracey
Say a prayer for me.....thanks, Gracey.
823
posted on
02/03/2003 8:12:39 PM PST
by
justshe
(Eliminate Freepathons! Become a monthly donor. Only YOU can prevent Freepathons!)
To: Howlin
But watch.....he'll still say the shuttle was on fire when it was over CA. I have read at least two eyewitness accounts that saw some apparent anomalies happening 50+ miles over the skies of California. And you try to deflect the argument to temperatures...nice try.
To: justshe
Will do. Also, a prayer for our wonderful President Bush. He is under so much pressure these days with the Iraqi, North Korean and now the Space Shuttle situations.
He has inherited many problems from PAST administrations. Let's pray for our wonderful country....:-)
825
posted on
02/03/2003 8:16:42 PM PST
by
Gracey
To: Axenolith
I understand, but I can't fault anyone for engaging in "CYA shenanigans" at a time like this.
You see, the level of "CYA shenanigans" is directly proportional to the amount of Monday-morning quarterbacking that we see in the aftermath of any event like this.
To: Chad Fairbanks
In additin to the fact that the shuttle orbits 'upside down', which means all we'd see, if we could, would be the top... ;0) Actually, it usually orbits in gravity gradient mode, which consumes the least propellant, but if the idea was to get pictures, it could be maneuvered to any favorable attitude for the photo ops.
827
posted on
02/03/2003 8:18:10 PM PST
by
Magnum44
(remember the Challenger 7, remember the Columbia 7, and never forget 9-11)
To: Magnum44
In theory, yes...
828
posted on
02/03/2003 8:19:01 PM PST
by
Chad Fairbanks
('I WISH, at some point, that you would address those damned armadillos in your trousers." - JustShe)
To: oldcomputerguy
"NASA's abilities are judged on performance. They have just had a failure. If it turns out to be a foam problem, it is then a problem they have known about for years and may in fact have been excerbated by a polically correct decision to use an "environmentally friendly' foam."
As we found out from 9/11 and afterward, political correctness can kill.
829
posted on
02/03/2003 8:21:10 PM PST
by
rboatman
(political correctness can kill us)
To: Chad Fairbanks
and yes, I DO know what gravity gradient mode means :0)
830
posted on
02/03/2003 8:21:23 PM PST
by
Chad Fairbanks
('I WISH, at some point, that you would address those damned armadillos in your trousers." - JustShe)
To: Gracey
Thanks, gracey. And I'll join you in a prayer for President Bush.
831
posted on
02/03/2003 8:21:31 PM PST
by
justshe
(Eliminate Freepathons! Become a monthly donor. Only YOU can prevent Freepathons!)
To: Fred Mertz
I'm not trying to divert anything. Todd said it was ON FIRE.....and it wasn't.
832
posted on
02/03/2003 8:22:28 PM PST
by
Howlin
To: KantianBurke
The Columbia was not equipped for 14 more days of spaceflight beyond January 30th, which the date of the memo...
833
posted on
02/03/2003 8:23:05 PM PST
by
Poohbah
(Beware the fury of a patient man -- John Dryden)
To: Chad Fairbanks
Lynch mob, please. This is called accountability, and isn't accountability a Conservative mantra? If one of your loved ones was killed on the ground, you'd be singing a different tune and you know it.
To: Howlin
There seems to be reliable evidence that small things (that could have been on fire) were beginning to fall from Columbia over the California skies.
You said nothing like that happened. Would you like your crow marinated?
To: VRWC For Truth
Lynch mob, please. This is called accountability, and isn't accountability a Conservative mantra? If one of your loved ones was killed on the ground, you'd be singing a different tune and you know it.So, what you are saying is, is that you know me well enough to believe that I would want 'closure' by demanding a scapegoat, or someone's head on a pike?
You don't know me at all...
836
posted on
02/03/2003 8:26:38 PM PST
by
Chad Fairbanks
('I WISH, at some point, that you would address those damned armadillos in your trousers." - JustShe)
To: Fred Mertz
But were those things that were falling off ON FIRE??????
837
posted on
02/03/2003 8:27:30 PM PST
by
Chad Fairbanks
('I WISH, at some point, that you would address those damned armadillos in your trousers." - JustShe)
To: Howlin; Fred Mertz
Howlin give it up
838
posted on
02/03/2003 8:29:16 PM PST
by
TLBSHOW
(God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
To: Chad Fairbanks
Guess what, if someone at NASA screwed up, they should be replaced. Isn't that what a Conservative would say? Your pretzel logic reminds me of the Klinton Koolaid drinkers.
To: KantianBurke; All
There's another angle to this whole argument.
Even if NASA had identified the damaged tiles as a potential problem, had another shuttle on a launch pad ready to go, and had the means to transfer the crew from one shuttle to the other, it would not have been that simple.
Someone at NASA would have had a serious decision to make. He would have had to determine the risk of such an unusual, untested space rescue, estimate the odds of the Columbia having a safe re-entry with the damaged tiles, estimate the odds of having a catastrophic event during the rescue mission, and make a decision based on those odds.
But even then it isn't that simple -- because once you send up another shuttle on a rescue mission, you have the lives of at least two additional crew members at risk. So the assessment is now based on the odds of nine crew members being lost on a rescue attempt versus the odds of the Columbia disintigrating on re-entry with seven astronauts on board.
I don't know one way or another what the odds would have been -- but I do know that it wouldn't have been an easy decision. And I am damned sure that if nine astronauts died on Saturday instead of seven and two shuttles were lost instead of one, there would be a bunch of people here on this thread complaining that NASA "botched it."
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