Astronauts doomed from the start

.heraldsun ^ | 2/3/2003 | PHILLIP COOREY and ANNA COCK

[Jael]

It's not the President's fault. NASA knew about the foam breaking off since 1997 if not earlier. They knew it was causing more damage than normal after they changed the formula to remove the Freon. That may not be what caused this, but I think it is.

Bush can't be held responsible for that.

[A Citizen Reporter]

OH, YIKES, You and Fred Mertz?

ROTFLMCO!

[#3Fan]

Gotta do some internet work. I'll check back later or tomorrow night.

I don't understand why everyone gets so angry over these discussions and I don't mean to raise heart rates over this issue.

[Howlin]

He said they appear to show a trail of debris.

You realize, don't you, that that is the photographer's characterization of his own pictures, that NASA hasn't seen them yet.

[Willie Green]

I think it is a fact that the shuttle was hit by a ufo...Its crowded up there

Klingons or Romulans?

[Jael]

Look, you don't have to answer her, but you don't have to be rude. Ok? Stay on your topic and do a good job. Then no one can complain.

[Howlin]

Yes, and ONLY the two of them realized it. Go figure!

[snooker]

Most shuttle flight return with missing tiles. Per NASA's own reports. It takes a big hole to cause real damge and loss of the orbiter.

NASA considers loos of up to 40 tiles routine.

But a big whack taking out a group of 10-12 might be a completely different result.

snooker

[Lancey Howard]

Simply recognizing objectively that there is no such thing as perfection.

And I agree. My point was that there was damage to the left wing during takeoff, the extent of which was not known, and it should have been checked out. "Utopia" and "perfection" have nothing to do with it.

On the other hand, maybe there was no way to "check it out" - - in which case we have another problem, and an inexcusable one, given the history of debris flying off the fuel tanks and tiles leaving the orbiter during launch. (See Jael's post #140.) "Utopia" and "perfection" have nothing to do with that, either.

[Jael]

No, those are Dittmore's comments about what he has seen. He has the data.

"In addition, Dittemore said images taken by an observer in California that appears to show an early trail of debris behind the shuttle will be examined and compared with the actual telemetry.

"We're going to overlay his report with what the data shows to us and hopefully the two of them will help us piece together a path that might help lead us to the cause," Dittemore said. "Again, we're very early in our analysis and we're still poring over a lot of data. So bear with us as we go through this effort and bear with us as we report to you because it's going to be fluid, it's going to change, and it's certainly possible we'll contradict ourselves from day to day. That's just the nature of what we have to go through right now."

[Jael]

Umm, what's your problem with that person drawing a conclusion from what NASA has stated, that there appears to be a trail of debris falling in CA?

[Concerned]

LANCEY HOWARD WROTE: "Like it or not, this is the result of failing to thoroughly check things out. Oh, they "analyzed" this and "concluded" that, but in the end NASA decided to just keep their fingers crossed. They should have checked it out."

BINGO!

Possible damage to the left wing heat-shield tiles MAY NOT have been the ultimate cause of the break up, but it SHOULD have been checked out instead of just ASSUMING such a CRITICALLY IMPORTANT item was okay.

See my post #185.

[#3Fan]

I never said that.

Here's what you said:

That being said, if a few did fall off over California, the catastrophic events wouldn't have happened immediately and since it was traveling so fast, I still think the even happened over Texas.

I don't believe that a few tiles coming off would've caused immediate catastrophy. I believe that a few tiles coming off would've caused burn-through and would've taken a few minutes.

[woofie]

Klingons or Romulans?

Well they were green and small ....but Im unsure of their religion, maybe baptist

[Cool Guy]

And no, there's not always a cause. Stuff happens.

What is the reason the shuttle did not do what it was expected to? I am sure that is what TLBSHOW is asking for.

[billhilly]

Are you a student of Mia T's?

[Jean S]

The title doesn't fit the text of the story. It's all speculation.

[Jael]

Immediately after the Columbia rolled to a stop, the inspection crews began the process of the post flight inspection. As soon as the orbiter was approached, light spots in the tiles were observed indicating that there had been significant damage to the tiles. The tiles do a fantastic job of repelling heat, however they are very fragile and susceptible to impact damage. Damage numbering up to forty tiles is considered normal on each mission due to ice dropping off of the external tank (ET) and plume re-circulation causing this debris to impact with the tiles. But the extent of damage at the conclusion of this mission was not "normal". The pattern of hits did not follow aerodynamic expectations and the number, size and severity of hits were abnormal.

Three hundred and eight hits were counted during the inspection, one-hundred and thirty two (132) were greater than one inch. Some of the hits measured fifteen (15) inches long with depths measuring up to one and one-half (1 1/2) inches. Considering that the depth of the tile is two (2) inches, a 75% penetration depth had been reached.Over one hundred (100) tiles have been removed from the Columbia because they were irreparable. The inspection revealed the damage, now the "detective process" began.

During the STS-87 mission, there was a change made on the external tank. Because of NASA's goal to use environmentally friendly products, a new method of "foaming" the external tank had been used for this mission and the STS-86 mission. It is suspected that large amounts of foam separated from the external tank and impacted the orbiter. This caused significant damage to the protective tiles of the orbiter. Foam cause damage to a ceramic tile?! That seems unlikly, however, when that foam is combined with a flight velocity between speeds of MACH two to MACH four, it becomes a projectile with incredible damage potential. The big question? At what phase of the flight did it happen and what changes need to be made to correct this for future missions? I will explain the entire process.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2121/used_news.htm

[Jean S]

Your link goes to a chat/blog type site. It cannot be considered a reliable site.

[#3Fan]

Most shuttle flight return with missing tiles.

Yes, I know. But I believe that the damage on launch was extraordinary damage due to the size of the object that struck the wing and the way it sprayed as if it was brittle.

Per NASA's own reports. It takes a big hole to cause real damge and loss of the orbiter.

Yep. Or missing tiles in crucial areas.

NASA considers loos of up to 40 tiles routine.

Yes I know.

But a big whack taking out a group of 10-12 might be a completely different result.

This is what could've happened on launch.