Exit polls show defeat for Schroeder party in German state elections

APNewsAlert | February 2002

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APNewsAlert

BERLIN, Feb 02, 2003 (AP WorldStream via COMTEX) -- Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's party loses two German state elections, exit polls say.

Copyright 2003 Associated Press, All rights reserved

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[Michael81Dus]

:-) Oskar isn´t in power at all, the CDU has the absolute majority there too. :-) Since 1999.

[tictoc]

That's right, that's right...

[maui_hawaii]

How many seats in the Bundestag, and from whence do they come? Are they on a per state (two per state like the Senate in the US) or is it population like the House?

Background would be helpful, but as is it sounds great.

[Bonaparte]

The unfortunate thing is that even with CDU/CSU in control, Germany will still be opposed to war with Iraq. Stoiber's position differs little from Schroeder's.

[tictoc]

How many seats in the Bundestag, and from whence do they come? Are they on a per state (two per state like the Senate in the US) or is it population like the House?

The electoral system for the Bundestag is hideously complex and can be understood only by three Ph.D. mathematicians, one of whom is perpetually drunk and unavailable for questions. The other two left town with no forwarding address.

Ask Michael in Duesseldorf, maybe he can get in touch with one of them.

[Michael81Dus]

No, we have two chambers in our parliament: the original parliament (Bundestag), elected once in 4 years. The SPD/Greens have a majority of 306 of 603 seats there. The second chamber (Bundesrat - Federal Council) represents the 16 states, having 69 members. After these elections, in which Schröders party was defeated, the CDU/CSU (pro NATO and US) has a majority of 41 seats. That´ll lead to huge problems for Schröder, because he cannot pass important laws without our approval.

Unfortunately, the Bundesrat has no influence on foreign policy. But Schröders SPD has tried to win the state elections by saying "NO" to the war again. The voters now said "NO" to his party! :-)

[Michael81Dus]

I´ve to disagree, our position is differs a lot. We say, that we have to stand by our allies and a unilateral position of Germany is inacceptable. That would lead to a yes to the war.

[daniela]

It's good that the voters in Hesse and Lower Saxony have said no to his party.

When are the next elections in NRW?

[Michael81Dus]

In 2005, one year before federal elections in 2006. :-(
If we win there too, the government in Berlin has to leave the offices. The reason is, that then we have a majority of 2/3 in the Federal Council, so that we can veto laws with 2/3 - and then the SPD/Greens must over-veto the law with 2/3 in the parliament, too - and they don´t have that majority. But it´s theory now. We enjoy our victory and hope for Berlin!

[Bogey78O]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Herr Shroeder align himself with the Greens to keep his party in power last time?

And now since the opposition has 50% he's out of luck?

[AlGone2001]

I am very glad that you are here with us on the forum.

I spent 2-years in Spangdahlem, Germany. It was not far from Trier. My favorite place was in the south in a town called Ottobeuren. I had a lot of excellent memories. Deutschland is a beautiful place. I will always remember the old ladies sweeping the street on Samstag. I only once saw litter on the steet, and sadly, it was a McDonald's bag. We could learn a few things about national pride from the Germans.

It makes me happy to see our Deutcher brudern moving toward conservatism.

[Michael81Dus]

It makes me happy, too - because this is the best result for my party in both states!

[Bogey78O]

I think the difference may be that instead of holding hands with Chirac Germany will be standing alone saying they will not stop Bush.

[tictoc]

See #46 by Michael :-)

[daniela]

2005.Ok.Then I'm allowed to vote.Great.

[Bonaparte]

"That would lead to a yes to the war."

Only if the UN gave its blessing -- a result that is far from certain. And even if this occured, CDU has made it clear (in its party platform) that it will not commit its military to the war. Stoiber has repeated this and has gone even further, saying the US should not even be permitted to use the German bases in a war with Iraq. This sounds a lot more like a "nein" than a "ja" -- at least to me.

From the socialists, who have every reason to represent the CDU as "warmongers" but don't --

In Germany, Edmund Stoiber (Christian Social Union—CSU), the main opposition candidate in upcoming national elections, changed the position he had held up to this point. Previously he had sharply attacked German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder (Social Democratic Party—SPD) over the latter’s public criticisms of the US war policy. Now Stoiber is seeking to distance himself from US plans.

According to leading figures in the CSU and its sister conservative party, the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), Stoiber’s former standpoint was no longer tenable after the latest comments by Cheney. “When there is talk of a preventative strike, then we have to react,” Stoiber commented.

In a quickly arranged appearance in Berlin, Stoiber clearly rejected any unilateral action against Iraq. He declared, “The monopoly for decisions and action rests with the United Nations. This excludes unilateral actions by a country without consultation and without an international mandate.”

Stoiber is saying the US has no right to go to war against Iraq unless the UN gives permission. That clearly means he will oppose the war unless the UN supports it. This is not "standing by his ally." It is standing by the UN.

From AFP --

During the election campaign, Stoiber in fact tried to better Schroeder by declaring that if elected he would prevent Washington from using its bases in Germany for a war on Iraq.

So Stoiber not only opposes the right of the US to make its own decisions in its own national interest, but has also pledged (in televised debate with Schroeder) to deny us the use of our German bases in the event of war. He talks a lot about "the tradition of German-American friendship," but comes up short when it's time to prove it. In last September's campaign, Stoiber started out lukewarm on support of our Iraq policy, then opposed us as his lead over Schroeder began to narrow.

[RobbyS]

Means that the CDU has more clout in the Bundesrat. They can now force Schroeder to deals. If the polls keep dropping, there is possibility of a new national election within the year. If our policy in Iraq succeeds, he won't have a leg to stand on, because the US will probably start making public plans to close some German bases.

[Michael81Dus]

http://www.welt.de/data/2003/01/28/36720.html?search=irak+cdu&searchHILI=1

Stoiber is one voice, he declared that he considers himself no longer as the candidate for chancellorship.
We have many others (Merkel, Schäuble, Rühe, Pflügler) who may speak for us, and they criticize unilateralism. The only answer is, that we want to be aside our allies. And that´s not the policy of Schröder.

A UN vote is not needed if we have evidences that Saddam breaks 1441 - and it looks like if he´s doing so.
The CDU strongly supports the US-German partnership and we would never claim "stopping aggressions against Iraq".

[Michael81Dus]

That´ll be interesting, too. How will closing US bases here affect Berlins policy? That´s going to be another slap in the face of Schröder.

Stoiber, former candidate for chancellorship, said "I feel a bit sorry for Schröder. He stands at the ruins of his failed policy, alone, and has no alternative to leave his isolated position."

[Blue Scourge]

Hey, it's a bit off topic, but I would just like to say that it is quite refreshing to see that some Germans still have values....It depresses me to see Germany's govt. take a stance against America, because I had always considered them one of our closest allies...Kudos to all of the German posters in here.

*sorry I'm new*