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The Space Shuttle Must Be Stopped
Time ^ | 2/2/2003 | Gregg Easterbrook

Posted on 02/02/2003 6:15:31 AM PST by RKV

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To: Hawkeye's Girl
Dude, some of us want to COLONIZE (not merely explore) space. You need humans for that.

These people weren't even doing that. I'm not sure yet what they were doing and if their lives were spent on anything significant. The moon can't be colonized in any important way and Mars is too cold. One thing we've learned is there are physical limitations, we've learned there is no oxygen in those places.

261 posted on 02/02/2003 9:20:51 AM PST by FITZ
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To: sonofatpatcher2
The seventh fatality was an Israeli.
262 posted on 02/02/2003 9:21:31 AM PST by Man of the Right
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To: FITZ
>>Dude, some of us want to COLONIZE (not merely explore) space. You need humans for that.>>

Then those of you who want what the rest of us DONT may feel free to pass the plate amongst yourselves, and spare the majority of us your expensive hobby toward a condo on Mars.
263 posted on 02/02/2003 9:24:56 AM PST by Righter-than-Rush
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To: cynicom
What do you care if it costs trillions of dollars? Most of it isn't your money.

Americans had it long ago. I've had it.

You want to put human beings into craft to explore the universe? Fine. Compete for venture financing and do it if you can get funding.
264 posted on 02/02/2003 9:25:34 AM PST by Man of the Right
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To: Man of the Right
Re: The seventh fatality was an Israeli.

Ok, Child of the Right, now you can say NASA kills more Jews.

You are a sick puppy, son.

265 posted on 02/02/2003 9:27:20 AM PST by sonofatpatcher2 (God Speed Columbia Seven)
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To: Physicist
>>First of all, we still don't know that there was any damage at all.>>

Of course the damage is and has been known. They knew it at liftoff. "An immediate focus of the investigation was possible damage to the protective thermal tiles on Columbia's left wing from a flying piece of debris during liftoff on Jan. 16. The space agency said the first indication of trouble Saturday was the loss of temperature sensors in the left wing's hydraulic system." http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=624&e=1&u=/ap/20030202/ap_on_sc/space_shuttle

>>Second, they didn't notice the bit of foam falling until they analyzed the film after the fact.>>

No, the flight director was in possession of the evidence of wing damage well before the shuttle was out of the atmosphere. See the same source.
266 posted on 02/02/2003 9:28:53 AM PST by Righter-than-Rush
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To: Righter-than-Rush
>>Dude, some of us want to COLONIZE (not merely explore) space. You need humans for that.>>

Then those of you who want what the rest of us DONT may feel free to pass the plate amongst yourselves, and spare the majority of us your expensive hobby toward a condo on Mars.

Classic. The key to human colonization in space is finding the product/service that will pay the way. So far it hasn't been successful. Space Cadets, continue to wear your thinking caps.

267 posted on 02/02/2003 9:29:03 AM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: Hawkeye's Girl
What's the point in building a moon base if only the robots get to live there?

Are we really spending all this money for some people to have an alternate place to live? I don't care where people want to live but I think all government spending should be to advance science. If we're looking for other "homes", then we can rule out the moon and Mars already with what we know, we can send robots out for now to other galaxies to find something humans could inhabit.

268 posted on 02/02/2003 9:29:10 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Dave S
Read my post 105.
269 posted on 02/02/2003 9:31:29 AM PST by tricky_k_1972
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To: RKV
PRIVATIZE! Let's get some LaGrange point stations up there. How big a plasma screen could be manufactured in micro gravity? We need to be on the moon full time too.
I hope and pray that this tragedy will fire America up to be more than we are today.
270 posted on 02/02/2003 9:31:34 AM PST by WhirlwindAttack (It's time to open some new frontiers. I'd like to retire to 1/6th gravity.)
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To: AmishDude
It's all about satellites. Television, mobile phones and a whole host of technologies depend on them. You've got to send people up there sometime.

Communications satellites do not require visits by people. They are in geosynchronous orbit, much higher than the space shuttle or other manned craft in use today can reach. The constellations of low earth orbit satellites for mobile phone, e.g. the Iridium project by Motorola, turned out to be economically impractical. But they also don't require manned spaceflight.

271 posted on 02/02/2003 9:32:55 AM PST by Lessismore
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To: redrock
If..we,as a Nation, do NOT rebuild the shuttle...or,even better, build BETTER spacecraft....then 7 brave men and women....just died for nothing.

Emotional crapola! For one thing we are not rebuilding the shuttle. We couldnt even if we wanted to. The technology no longer exists. We would have to go out and scavenge used parts bins, etc to find parts to rebuild with.

272 posted on 02/02/2003 9:33:25 AM PST by Dave S
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To: Man of the Right
Man...

I believe we all well understand your view and your opinions. To me it seems to be money, mostly your money. In that vein, I have to agree, the government spends lots of money on ventures with which I cannot agree.. Space exploration and its attendant research and development is one in which "ALL MANKIND" will benefit, including you, therefore I see no rational argument against it on a dollar basis.

273 posted on 02/02/2003 9:33:44 AM PST by cynicom
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)
My question would be, which of the missions to the moon have accomplished more

Accomplished more what? Science? It's arguably a draw, but the science performed by the astronauts could more easily have done without the astronauts.

But I can't yet go so far as saying we've actually been to Mars yet, because we haven't.

Now you're getting back to my question: what is space exploration for? In my response you quoted, I was talking strictly about the science. Here you are talking about the subjective experience of being on another planet, which is a completely different purpose with a different set of requirements. That's not to say it isn't a good or desirable purpose: as a matter of fact, it is.

We've sent a camera and a thermometer, etc., that's all...

That's a hell of a lot. That's what does the science, whether people are there or not.

274 posted on 02/02/2003 9:34:26 AM PST by Physicist
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To: Righter-than-Rush
I hope you're not blaming ME for that comment ---it wasn't me who said that--- I agree with you. If certain people are looking for a thrill or a new home then they can pay their way, I should hope the space missions are to further scientific knowledge and help in our defense ---like Star Wars but none of that requires humans.
275 posted on 02/02/2003 9:34:41 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Dark Nerd
But the author did raise valid points about the "white elephant" aspects of the Shuttle program - the cost overruns, the inefficiency, and how it seems to be a big barrel of pork for aerospace contractors.

I'm not an aerospace contractor but I lived in SoCal and worked in for a metal processing business from 1973-1988. We serviced hundreds of SST subcontracting customers employing a handful to hundreds of personnel in the San Fernando and San Gabriel Valleys, LA and the South Bay. Thanks to the SST program, businesses flourished enabling thousands to buy homes, send kids to college, and enjoy a secure lifestyle. Some made millions I'm sure but many many more made simply comfortable lives for themselves and their families.

The big primes are gone now or significantly downsized and/or consolidated, these bald black-suited bogeymen of the Op/Ed political cartoons, and if pornography is not the biggest business in the SFV now, I don't know what is.

276 posted on 02/02/2003 9:35:09 AM PST by onehipdad
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To: Righter-than-Rush
Of course the damage is and has been known.
At this point in time, you are completely wrong in making that statement. Or, do you have information that we, the public, have not been made aware of? I've heard at least two reports on TV (one from a former shuttle astronaut) that there have been several occasions where a piece of foam from the external tanks dislodged during launch and fell off. No damage was done to the shuttle. It may indeed be the case that, this time, the foam did damage the shuttle wing, but it's not yet "known."
277 posted on 02/02/2003 9:38:36 AM PST by Clara Lou
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To: Righter-than-Rush
Modern women have pushed for such things

I don't have a problem with women going on missions where necessary, but I have some difficulty calling women who leave their children for weeks and months at a time because they want to experience some kind of thrill "heroes". The true hero women are those staying home with their children or at least spending as much time as possible with them. It's not that the mothers on board have been killed, they abandon their children for weeks on end just preparing.

278 posted on 02/02/2003 9:39:28 AM PST by FITZ
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To: RKV; jwalsh07
Gregg Easterbrook usually writes for The New Republic. The guy is smart and fair, and best of all, extremely knowledgable. No one in the media covers the interstices between science and politics better than Easterbrook. No one. One would do well to read everything he writes. I make a point of it, and have posted several of his pieces on FR, including on abortion, pollution, stem cells, global warming etc.

Make sure you don't miss him John.

279 posted on 02/02/2003 9:44:58 AM PST by Torie
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To: Righter-than-Rush
Of course the damage is and has been known. They knew it at liftoff.

Please read more carefully.

"An immediate focus of the investigation was possible damage to the protective thermal tiles on Columbia's left wing from a flying piece of debris during liftoff on Jan. 16.

It says possible damage. Where does it say when the flying debris came to the attention of NASA? All it says is that the debris flew on liftoff.

The space agency said the first indication of trouble Saturday was the loss of temperature sensors in the left wing's hydraulic system."

Those temperature sensors were lost during reentry shortly before the Shuttle disintegrated. There is no evidence that there was any damage to that wing before that point in time.

280 posted on 02/02/2003 9:46:28 AM PST by Physicist
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