America will continue to bleed jobs

[FightingForFreedom]

Wages will not equalize between U.S. and foreign countries for a very long time, if ever. The problem is supply differences. The 100 million or so American workers are vastly outnumbered by the potential number of Chinese, Indian, and other developing nation's manufacturing and knowledge workers. The standard of living differential is also too great. The balancing act for U.S. and multi-national businesses that are outsourcing our jobs is to make sure they don't kill the golden goose (the American consumer) before they've generated an even bigger goose to take to slaughter in China, India, and other targeted markets. Remember, producing cheaply means nothing if there's nobody to buy the products. And no one has been as well-trained as the American consumer to buy, buy, buy, no matter how much in debt one becomes! As a software engineer, I've seen this problem coming for at least 5 years now, but it was well masked by the artificial high-tech bubble through March 2000. I'm not sure that there is an answer at this point -- the genie is out of the bag, so to speak. Once one company in an industry has convinced the govt to open a market in one undesirable country or other, all other companies with which it competes are forced to do the same. Bottling up the genie is notoriously difficult.

[DBtoo]

Anything can get out of hand, including free markets. I think what will end up happening is that the poorer countries will become a tiny bit better off (they don't pay them much, but at least they have jobs to pay for basic foods) and the US economically will be much worse off. There should be a happy medium, although I have to agree Marxism is much worse and downright evil. However, if the free market does get out of hand, our ecomomy and way of life could come to resemble the Soviet Union of the 60s and 70s. In some ways it's already happening culturally.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

I guess I'm just an America Firster as this is my country and it's sad to see it deteriorate so.

So am I DB. Despite the rhetoric, the fact remains that half of all American workers now pay into the lowest tax bracket. That stat doesn't lie. It means people are trying to survive with minimum wage jobs, no benies. It means they have no disposable income to regenerate the economy. It means that the idiots are killing off their market faster than they're developing new ones. And that means there will be a severe worldwide collapse ahead.

[maui_hawaii]

One of the things I have openly proposed here on FR (as a 1st generation theory) is as follows:

1.)Raise the holy hell out of general tarriffs on goods. Triple them at least across the board.

2.)Second, at the same time that happens sign several free trade agreements around the globe with allies, friends, and those we can most easily develop into a strong middle class. Those FTAs will exempt those countries from #1 above.

This approach will cause these nations to get the bulk of investment and be the best option for overseas/foreign development. It will focus our resources like a lazerbeam on development. It will funnel resources to the best places for it.

It will have all the same perks, bells, and whistles as any other outsourcing. (cost cutting etc)

FTAs too by the way allow our corporations to have access to the market(s) we create. All those artificial barriers will be gone.

We export 75 cents to Mexico for every dollar we import from Mexico. With China we barely get 15 cents on the dollar.

Yet we have corporation after corporation leaving Mexico even to go to China. In the big picture, considering all things, I would think creating a trade cartel would be a good option.

As time goes on, we can control our exposure and entrance into places like China. Sure beats a bubble...like we are setting ourselves up for now. Now everyone is rushing to the lowest on the toem pole for as much labor as possible. My plan would remove barriers (as long as you stay in the family) but also put a floor on labor pricing. Net result for costs=zero difference.

We have to invest in the whole picture, not just plink one key on the piano over and over.

[Iris7]

The current trends lead toward the democratic election of a tyrant. Tyrants win election by promising "the little guy" justice from the "oligarchy" when "the little guy" can't feed his family and the "Big Boys" look to have everything. A recent example is Chavez in Venezuela. Aristotle saw this as the inevitable end of democracy.

[1tin_soldier]

A person just can't live on that.

Are you saying foreigners aren't people? Could it possibly be that "foreigner" does the job better and more efficiently? I wish I could get a $2.99 haricut then go spend the other $10 I usually get charged by the barber on something else. The $10 doesn't just go away!

..... this is my country and it's sad to see it deteriorate so.

What? Our per capita real income is near an all time high and we have lifestyles that are the envy of the entire world. Anyone who wants a job can find a job (please don't tell me they can't). And things are deteriorating?

[1tin_soldier]

Mr. Hoffa? Is that you?

[maui_hawaii]

see post #43

There is no denying that the "trend" is chasing "cheap labor" and it will not be reversed untill the "cheap labor" market dries up.

Or finally come to the realization that there is a WHOLE LOT of cheap labor, and hence decide not to drown ourselves in it. We should eat that elephant one bite at a time.

The difference between formerly cheap Japanese labor and China is all about size. The labor and costs and investments were contained in only an X size of place. In China resources are spread too thin.

In China it will take more money than we have to get them to that level. We can absorb small islands, not nations of billions of people.

BTW Japan is our biggest market in Asia.

[Leisler]

If only we could outsource lawyers. Now that, would make my day, to have a bunch of shuffle footed, parsing, thousansds of dollars per page dolts to be standing by the freeway ramps begging for money.

[DBtoo]

Just what is a neo-con anyway? That term has become very popular recently.

[Torie]

You said:

Despite the rhetoric, the fact remains that half of all American workers now pay into the lowest tax bracket. That stat doesn't lie. It means people are trying to survive with minimum wage jobs, no benies. It means they have no disposable income to regenerate the economy

And then we have this table of median family income (that is median, not mean, which means that half are above the number, and half below), in real dollars, and that is with the CPI overstating what is the real inflation rate. Do facts matter at all anymore?

You are right about one thing though. Federal income taxes have been reduced substantially on families that earn below the median income. Does that upset you?

[DBtoo]

Good article. I think it would be hard for anyone to argue with those facts.

[nopardons]

Okay, I just can't stand your ravings anymore.

Fact ... if by " culturally, the old USSSR did NOT have pornographic T.V. and movies . Neither did it have " rap ", Brittany Spear and other 1/2 naked, gyrating kids doing XXX concerts. What it had, is what you want ; to whit ...a job for everyone ( even if they were only " make work ones ), free schooling through college, free health care ,housing for everyone, and loads and loads of protectionism. Did that make for a heallthy, profitable, happy society ? NO !

Historically, in the nonrevisionistic, factual, history of this nation, jobs have come and gone, American workers have been displaced by immigrants , and they just found something else to do, or starved.

You talk about the deterioration of our standard of living. You don't know history, you don't know anything about economics, and you know even LESS about the standard of living, in your own country, than someone from some other nation does ! Just today, in the N.Y. Post, there was an entire page article, about the living standards of today and just 30 years ago. More people have telephones, T.V.s, VCR, two story houses, 2 1/2 bathrooms, or more, in their homes, and on and on and on. If opne looks back farther, say 50 or 60 years, the differences, for the BETTER, are remarkable and astounding.

Tell me, should the government of the USA made certain that the whaling industry didn't go out of business ? How about bakellite ? Would you prefer to use a coal/ wood stove to cook on, a crank phone , a washboard to clean your clothes on ? NO ? Why not ? Those folks lost their jobs.

[Torie]

Neocon

[nopardons]

A " Neo-con " refers to someone who used to be an old Socialist/extreme lefty/ far lefty Dem ( usually also a Jew, but NOT always ), who, saw the light and became a Conservative Republican. It is a term of dersision for Libertarians. In truth, Ronald Reagan is a neo-con.

[1tin_soldier]

Tell me, should the government of the USA made certain that the whaling industry didn't go out of business ? How about bakellite ? Would you prefer to use a coal/ wood stove to cook on, a crank phone , a washboard to clean your clothes on ? NO ? Why not ? Those folks lost their jobs.

Don't forget the sliderule industry (remember those?). It has been completely wiped out. What a shame.

[DBtoo]

But what will happen to all the people who have no jobs due to companies moving overseas, and with the new technologies that do the jobs people used to do? How do people continue making a living?

I'm glad for your barber. I wonder if she has seen the same thing coming, although I guess it depends on where you live. It's worse in Houston because of the many illegals there and all the legal immigrants who are willing to work for very little.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

Your post is a breath of fresh air in an environment such as this where the Pat Buchanan economic world view holds so much sway. Somewhat related to the topic at hand would be a snapshot of American industry, shown in the trade figures.

It turns out that just 4 categories out of a few dozen, Clothing, Oil & Energy, Automobiles, and Electronic commodities such as TV's and VCR's, accounted for some $370 Billion of a $411 Billion trade deficit last year. Oil and natural gas deficits are a sign of a very strong economy, not a weak one. It would be one thing if Americans were willing to pay $15 for a pair of underwear and $25 for a t-shirt but they are not. Ditto for low value added electronic commodities which will never be made here, and lets hope they won't since that would mean we would be a 2nd world country.

Certainly, we could benefit to export more than the $277 million that we did of automobiles but the $150 Billion we imported was again, a sign of strength. More to the point, while our jobs and pay were supposedly melting away, our exports more than doubled and imports almost tripled in the last 10 years. If anything, these figures show that the rest of the world is just too damn poor for their own good.

[nopardons]

Yes, slide rules and comptomator makers and comptomotrists, and 1,000s of other products and jobs. Gone, vanished, no more.

Where are the old knife grinders ? How about the vanishing Chinese laundries ? ;^)

[CWOJackson]

"...where the Pat Buchanan economic world view holds so much sway."

But fortunately is as relevent as buchanan is himself.

[Slewfoot]

Fix what? My excess money problems?

Yep we can save alot of money by replacing protection with globalization. Look at what we're paying for the border patrol, open borders don't need gurads. Same with an army, one world order all one country no need for protectionism. We could fire most of those congressmen and senators, the UN can replace them. Globalization is good just ask Fidel or Hillary. Who would want a government to protect it's citizens. I know those darn americans built a pretty good country with fair trade, but free trade is better for them and the rest of the socialist world, they just don't know it. Darn selfish capitalist, elimate the american government and we can all be better off just like walter said.
It's a small world after all..........</global bs>