Very close-up, slo-mo of the Columbia launch debris.

Florida Today ^ | 02/01/03

[XBob]

Wow - so the greenies took out our great SUV (Space Utility Vehicle)

[poindexter]

Russians could have brought them back.

[Humidston]

Please see post #60 and comment, if you can.

[Enlightiator]

It appears from this Sept. 10, 1998 status report for shuttle mission STS-95 that tile damage due to external tank foam debris has been an ongoing concern for years (see my earlier post in this thread as well):

"In the VAB this week, workers completed installation of an accelerometer on the external tank and a camera on the left solid rocket booster's forward assembly. Data will be collected with these tools during ascent as part of the Shuttle program's study on how external tank foam debris contributes to orbiter tile damage. The focal point of the camera is delineated by a grid of small marks on the external tank near the left forward SRB/ET attach point. These marks may be visible when the Shuttle rolls out to Pad 39B on Sept. 21." http://www.floridatoday.com/space/explore/releases/1998b/s091198.htm

[petuniasevan]

Space Shuttle Columbia Disaster Archive ^

[XBob]

thanks

well, since it's only NASA (no politician's ass and no terrorist's ass), the truth might out, however .....

[FreedomPoster]

>>I hope this event didn't happen just so NASA could be politically correct.

My immediate reaction, too, or rather environmentally correct. Same thing.

[twyn1]

The Russians couldn't bring them back -- the Columbia could not dock with the space station -- this shuttle was too heavy -- if too many essential tiles were damaged on take off, and if the crew did not have an EVA suit (for a spacewalk) then they were doomed at launch

[Clay Moore]

Word is that one of KX series satilites was turned up to look at the damage on Apollo 13. That was '60's technology...

[Clay Moore]

The re-entry is all dead stick flying. I am not even sure the ohms engines are running.

[XBob]

interesting, i didn't know that.

but I do know that we have some 'interesting' ground based telescopic cameras to take pictures of 'interesting' satelites. And 'they' occasionally checked for missing tiles when necessary. Pretty good photo's.

[XBob]

"The re-entry is all dead stick flying. I am not even sure the ohms engines are running."

the only 'stick' above the atmpsphere is the ohms/rcs engines, and they don't 'run'. they are used for manuvering, and burn only as needed. They always have fuel left on landing.

[FReepaholic]

>>...I agree, or at least use our 'fancy' telescopes to check the condition of the tiles...<<

They've used Air Force telescopes in Hawaii in the past but I've heard that the results were inconclusive.

>>...Were they equipped to do space walks? Did they do them? I don't know...<<

I don't know that they had an EVA suit onboard for this mission. Even so, they cannot inspect tiles on the belly of the craft. There are no hand-holds.

[Atchafalaya]

My question also, was it foam or ice from the supercooled liquid fuel. I beleive the foam is a type of polyurethane; if that was a large chunk of ice then the damage may have been more significant. Speculation! I'm just so sad that this occurred. So close to home, but at the point of maximum stress and something let go. I remember Challenger, there was a Morton Thiokol engineer walking into the office and someone asked him what happened and he said that it was obvious that the shuttle fuel tank had failed and had blown up. Well as we all found out later it wasn't a fuel tank failure, it was a SRB joint/gasket failure that caused the incident. I'm sure the people at Michaud are devastated by this loss and are going over the records of that tank. When a catastrophe such as this occures a single quantifying reason is extremely rare. The expected scenario (if all tell the truth) is that there is a chain of events that lead up to the incident; that at if at any point that chain is intervened upon the incident doesn't occur. Let the chips fall where they may.

[Stefan Stackhouse]

38 - "There seem to have been so many tile-related incidents with regard to the shuttles. Is the tech there now to replace tiling with, for example, a seamless covering for the entire vehicle, or am I straying into the realm of science-fiction?"

Not that I know of. I think you would have to repeal a few laws of physics and thermodynamics. (expansion and contraction) at different rates, and the 'gap filler' between the tiles.

A thought: if we just sent cargo up separately in rockets and didn't try to carry BOTH cargo and people in the same vessel, then the shuttle would not have needed to be nearly as large and heavy as it is. A smaller spacecraft would have meant fewer tiles -- and thus fewer things that might go wrong. It would have also meant a different (and smaller) configuration of rocketry to boost it into orbit -- would "smaller" in this case also mean "safer"? A smaller shuttle not configured to carry cargo might also have endured fewer stresses on re-entry, and it might actually be configured as a flyable space-plane, instead of the "flying brick" that it presently is.

Is it time to consider replacing the shuttle with a new generation of space craft?

[Alice in Wonderland]

Does anyone know how hard this insulating "foam" is? Is it a bit of fluff like polyurethane? Or does it have a hard structural member?

My local station from Orlando was broadcasting the landing live ... the reporter there had what he said was a small piece of the "foam". He easily stuck a pen into it ... it reminded me of packing foam.

[aristeides]

I hope this event didn't happen just so NASA could be politically correct.

Note that the switch happened during the Clinton administration.

Was Goldin the head of NASA at the time?

[XBob]

74 - "I remember Challenger, there was a Morton Thiokol engineer walking into the office and someone asked him what happened and he said that it was obvious that the shuttle fuel tank had failed and had blown up. Well as we all found out later it wasn't a fuel tank failure, it was a SRB joint/gasket failure that caused the incident. "

Yes, I remember too, and the only guy who was fired, in the whole incident was the Morton-Thiokol engineer who did tell the truth, and said 'don't fly', and not any of the others who lied, or over road him.

And they still haven't properly publicized that they had been aware of the o-ring problem for years prior to the incident, and had the fix design completed for 18 months, but they just couldn't slow the schedule down to fix the problem.

[ironman]

You need to reconsider the relative velocity of the debris and the shuttle.

[69ConvertibleFirebird]

Bump for look when I'm on high speed link at NASA on Monady.