NASA Press Conference Thread

[ksen]

NASA Press conference any minute now....

[snopercod]

For the record, that's *bond line*.

[Cboldt]

It's almost as if he was saying "Why bother? Even if we found a problem we couldn't fix it."

Actually, this is exactly what he was saying, and expressed later on in the conference. While I agree he was not directly responsive, I get the impression that he thought the possibility of failure on re-entry (due to impact of insulation from fuel tank onto shuttle structure) had been assessed, and found to not exist. If it had been found to exist, he asserted that "there is no remedy."

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but this Press Conference, and the performance of the program director, especially on that question, makes me believe that he is feeling tremendous guilt.

I agree, he is feeling guilt. I bet lots of folks are. Doesn't mean they knew there was a serious problem and decided to ignore it.

[snopercod]

Are there redundant sensors and wiring?

Yes, for critical systems. There are two (or more) sensors, and the wiring is run via different routes.

These measurements were not critical.

[bribriagain]

re #129: brilliant analysis. Uou are exactly right, you don't doom people just because you have no apparent means to fix the problem.

[steveegg]

Close enough for a quick transcription.

[_Jim]

Off scale meaning ...

A sensor system for a critical system, when designed, should have some 'failsafe' wherein the loss of the physical 'sensor' or it's electrical connection does not yield a reading that might represent a *nominal*, in range or safe reading.

So, some provision must be made to indicate that an actual 'sensor', be it light (photodiode, photocell, etc) heat (PN junction, Thermistor or thermocouple, etc) when open other otherwise disconnected (failed) indicates to the data mux (multiplexer) that said sensor is truly in a 'failed state' and cannot be relied upon for meaningful data ...

How this is specifically accomplished differs from sensor to sensor, but, it sounds as if these temp mmst devices aboard the SS were in some sort of 'bridge' where the physical loss of any element in that 'bridge' can truly result in offscale readings ...

[snopercod]

God save us from lawyers. They'll be the death of liberty yet.

The Columbia did not have an airlock nor the suits to perform a spacewalk, nor any way to repair tiles.

But I'm sure that the "concerned citizens" of the ATLA will demand that NASA do so (after filing a multi-billion $ lawsuit on behalf of the survivors in which they receive the standard 30%.)

[Cboldt]

I wonder, did the shuttle crew even get informed that a massive piece of insulation had broken off the launch tank and struck the left wing leading-edge?

I think the press conference included assertions that the astronauts were asked to photograph the launch tank as it departed the shuttle, to permit the development of technical solutions to the shedding of insulation. Also asserted was that this was not the first mission that shed insulation from the launch tank. If those facts are true, one could infer that the astronauts knew that insulation was shed from the launch tank, etc.

[bribriagain]

In fact, that's the Headline for Tomorrow: "NASA has a Very Bad Day"

[snopercod]

Why don't you trial lawyers take a hike to hell.

Your questions give you away.

[theFIRMbss]

>Do you really believe that these people willingly and knowlingly ignored something that allowed this to happen?

Have you ever read
Feynman's account of his work
after Challenger?

Lots of people knew
the O-ring was a killer.
Knew that a cold launch

could wreck the shuttle.
Yet somehow it was given
a go for liftoff.

(And it seems NASA
allowed the Hubble mirror
to be lifted flawed.

And science writers
have alleged that NASA knew
the last Mars project

had some fatal flaw
but allowed it to attempt
landing anyway.)

Elements within
NASA seem to have acquired
"bureaucrat's blindness"

that let's them distance
themselves from horrible things.
It's painful to think

it could have happened
again. But it has happened
before, more than once.

[steveegg]

Answer these questions, if you can:

• Once a shuttle enters the orbit that it did, can it still reach the International Space Station?
• If it can, how many Soyuz capsules are on there (if the answer is less than 4, who do you leave behind?)?
• If it can't, how long does it take to get a semi-warm shuttle launched (hint; Atlantis was due for a March 1 launch)?
• If that shuttle can be launched in time, how do you get at least 9 people into a shuttle that seats 7?
• Where are the replacement tiles supposed to be stored?
• How is the crew going to heat the adhesive to get these replacement tiles to stick?

I'm waiting....

[Calvin Locke]

What!?

I distinctly remember the PR from the early days of the shuttle. Tiles flew off, iirc, during transport on the 747.
Adhesive changed. Tiles missing after one of the first landings.

"Somebody" came up with a way to "patch" missing tiles in orbit. Glob of some adhesive and spare tiles. Wasn't
pretty, but it worked. NASA was quite proud in showing how the repair would work on TV, too.

Now excuse me while I hit the head to relieve some of the smoke NASA is blowing up...

[_Jim]

Do you really believe that these people willingly and knowlingly ...

What's the current state of your car?

Tire pressure set acording to tire makers recommendation?

Any cuts or contusions showing that could cause future problems?

Have you recently checked your oil?

Have you changed it regularly every 3 to 5 thousand miles?

Steering gear, tie rod ends and ball joints - have you had an inspection by a mechanic on these safety-critical items?

If you answered -no- to any of these questions - how can you feel safe driving your car?

[Just mythoughts]

If he had listened to the tube at all today, he would have been fully aware that suggestions have been made all day about whether or not the falling object could be a reason.

Based upon what I have heard thus far, so much speculation has been offered as to what happened, I too heard his response and because of all the speculation I have heard today was not surprised at all by his response.

To me he knew exactly what the reporter was getting to and his response was broadly given to say, we have no reason to believe that the falling object caused a problem, and even if the tile had been damaged, there was no way they were prepared to check it or repair it.

Further, I also understood that the area where the tile may have been hit was not the same location of the sensors, or source where the problem was. Might be on same wing, however, not same area.

Quite frankly, I didn't think he was defensive enough. Put yourselves in his shoes, how long ago did this happen, yet he is put in front of the world to answer what went wrong. Already speculation is out that this was cause by something that went wrong on the way up and you did nothing.

They had asked for photo to be taken from inside to see damage, so those on board would not have enough knowledge to demand a look see before they came home.

The dangers involved in space travel are beyond the ability for most to comprehend. Human made vehicles against the force of nature do not always hold up.

Today is a very sad time and in an 8 hour time span to read that someone spots potential "guilt" in an response to questions by a reporter, really hit me the wrong way.

Time may prove you right, however, it just seems a little early to assign guilt.

[Cboldt]

re #129: brilliant analysis. Uou are exactly right, you don't doom people just because you have no apparent means to fix the problem.

No, one doesn't deliberately doom people. But, what if they --ARE-- in fact doomed? E.g., "Hey, take a walk outside the Kursk and notice that you're sunk." Or, the airliner that had hydraulic failures and tried to land at Kansas City. Sometime we are "forced to watch." I don't think today's shuttle disaster fits in that category, but have an open mind if evidence comes out otherwise.

I think the analysis in #128 is the analysis of a trial lawyer, circling blood. It might be good, but then again, it might not be.

[bribriagain]

Chill out dude. I probably know as much about data acqu and sensors as you. I'm the VP of the Boston ISA (I assume you know what the ISA is). Your cheap shot at me was uncalled for. I believe trial lawyers are wrecking this country.

[steveegg]

Now where did I put my old blue "Since" code? Ah; here it is...

Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh

Trial laywer troll since February 1, 2003

[Just mythoughts]

Jim

That is the point, it is a risk I take getting into that car.

The condition of my car is far less concern than the speed demons, cut offs etc., I face everytime I get in my car.

I would probably never get into it, if all I thought about was the condition of the car and the idiots I must stay away from while on the road.

Accidents happen and sometimes we inflict them on ourselves, sometimes others get sloppy, but to do so willing and knowlingly is pre-meditation and a crime.

There is no doubt that evil, greedy people exist, but I am not ready right now to place that for the reason for this.

[Calvin Locke]

You forgot that Mars Mission, or I should say, one of the Mars Missions, that failed because one or more of the
non-Feynmans allowed both English and Metric systems in the design and planning of the mission?

And I thought NASA may have had a ray of hope of redemption with the departure of Dan Golden.