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The problem is we don't know the rate of mutation in any species as it isn't set . It is a random variable and its speed is set by a variety of factors. A virus, a random mutation, or a cancer can cause all sorts of mutations but when all factors act in a short time (several generations) then mutations occur at a higher rate. You also miss a main point Viruses not only reshuffle what is already there they can add genetic material from their own DNA or carry DNA from other creatures.They can also link genes in different ways.

In fact I would even go so far as to suggest if Christians are hunting for GOD they look toward the lowly virus as the architect of most higher lifeforms today. :)

Again rate of mutation is due to environmental factors that cause mutation when all the factors are working at once mutation occurs quickly but when a person says quickly it could mean hundreds or thousands of years.

As you can see no rate of change can be set. If we know all variables that may be possible. I however doubt we as scientists know all factors that can cause mutation yet. The Viral factor in evolution is brand new and there are even more cutting edge hypothesis that may or may not change what we already know.

What kind of links are you looking for I placed links that are easy to understand rather than technospeak that the average reader would fall asleep over?

I agree that we have a lot more to learn about what virii have done to the genome, but that also means it is not reasonable to attribute what many regard as God-like powers to them.

Let's approach this another way. I have gone with ya'lls numbers every step of the way to make it fit. I have not asked any of you to budge a bit even though gore3000 makes a good case that your numbers are suspect.

If we look at the total number amount of difference in the humane genome then maybe we can find the average human mutation rate REGARDLESS if it was caused by radiation, virii, or whatever. It then does not matter how the mutation occured- it takes virus and every other kind of mutation into account. We can then compare that to human-chimp differences and see how likely it is that they split.

Let me show you what I mean: I will not do your homework for you, as some have suggested, but I will do a sample problem for you. I will pretend like I am on your side, and generate some numbers that supports your case.....

A study by Doritz found eight base pair differences out of 397 studied from mtDNA from ethnic groups around the world. Using this study, we can calculate that there is about 2 percent variablity in this hyper-mutational region of mtDNA (8 /397= .02).

Does all of the human genome vary by this amount? IF the mutation rate of this region were applied to all CHROMOSOMAL DNA then a 42 million bpd divided by .02 equals an expected humane genome size of 2.1 billion base pairs. That number of base pairs and higher means that variablity in the human genome can account for it. As one goes lower than that number, the idea that natural factors alone are responsible goes down.

Compared to the actual count of 3 billion bp, you are well within the ballpark of saying the differences can happen as a result of naturalistic mechanisms.

OK, end of Darwins-advocate mode.

The only catch in the above is DOES TOTAL CHROMOSOMAL variability in humans equal or exceed that 2% figure I cited? NO. I don't know what the real difference is though. How much % wise do we all differ from one another in our total CHROMOSOMAL DNA? How do our 42 million (or 150 million using g3ks calculations) bpd's from chimps compare to the number of pbd we have from one another?

If we evolved, shouldn't that calculation give us the average chimp-human mutation rate? Conversely, if we are super-similar to one another compared to our differences with chimps, wouldn't that imply that WE DON'T mutate fast enough to explain the difference?

Do any of you have this information? I invite any of you to plug the real number (not the 2% figure I used, but the real abount of %bp difference in the human genome) into the process I have outlined above and let's see what the numbers show us. Any takers?

If not, does my brainstorm example lead you into any ideas as to how you could model mathematically the reasonableness of the man-chimp connection?