The Cat in Ancient Egypt

Tour Egypt ^ | FR Posts 1-30-2003 (April 1st, 2001) | By Ilene Springer

[HetLoo]

Hy-Brasil sounded familiar to me so I went digging, even drug out my old CFA yearbooks from the seventies but didn't turn up any references. :) Oh well, its loads of fun to hear stories about Siamese from the "old days", can't say I particularly liked the look of Siamese from the 60's and 70's, asthetically they are generally more pleasing nowadays - to me anyway.

Interesting to hear they were still struggling with the neotnic standard in those days as well, and I thought Siamese were supposed to have been bigger back then. Thank God they finally took the word "dainty" out of the standard! I bet I would have liked your boy, we like Siamese to aspire to the description "statuesque", which 99% of todays cats only reach "miniatures". Our current boys have been docked and overlooked on account of their size on a regular basis but we are bound and determined that WILL change :)

[HetLoo]

"The vet said the same as you, that she was gorgeous. He also said chocolate points are rare - is that true? "

Not as rare as lilacs but rarer than seals or blues. Seals are the dominant color, which is why there are so many, then blue is a dilute of seal. Chocolate is the recessive form of seal (so you need two recessive genes to get it) and lilac is the dilute of the recessive so the rarest to get.

"Why do you think they might want her back if I ever found the cattery? She's spayed and has been with me so long that we are so bonded I feel like a Siamese twin. "

Because some cat breeders are freaks. Sorry, there just isn't any other way to describe it (unless you want to use the word "nazi") but not all of them are that way and legally, I think they would have a very hard time trying to get back after all these years so you might be safe.

"She showed up when I was home from a major operation and bedridden for a month. She was about 12-16 weeks old and her hair was so thin you could see her skin. She spent the month in bed with me and policed the visiting nurses, examining everything they brought and making sure they did no harm."

Oh, poor kitty! Looks like you did a wonderful job with her. She looks just beautiful.

"I have seen sealpoints who get very dark, nearly losing their points, but she has stayed pretty white and if you look closely, her ear points at 5 yo are not quite touching (something you or another mentioned here)."

Chocolates are supposed to stay white, as are lilacs though some shading is allowed with age and truth is some of those colors shade pretty young anyway. Coat color on Siamese is heat dependent. If your cat was kept in a cold environment, you would notice her coat darken a lot more. That it is still pretty white at 5 years is a hallmark of good breeding in chocolates, one reason why I think her breeder specialized in them.

"Thank you for all your information. This is fascinating and proves I no little about the breed."

Siamese are one of the easiest breeds to learn about in part because they've been around for a very long time and their genetics are very simple if you stick with the four original colors - one reason I prefer breeding them, I would hate to sort out tabbies and ticking and who's masking what...

[HetLoo]

If you really want to trace her origin, start at this site www.breedlist.com, look for siamese breeders in massachusetts (Minghou works with chocolates and lilacs) send them a nice face-on picture of your cat with her story and ask if they think it could have come from their cattery. Make sure to tell them the cat has been spayed and you are only inquiring because you may want another cat just like her some day. See where it gets you.

[AnAmericanMother]

Yup, the rear elevation establishes conclusively that SHE is a girl. She looks a little heavier than in the other photo, but I can see her ears really well and they look quite nice. (She's also obviously a TOTALLY HAPPY cat - look at that Siamese smile and scrunched around tail).

I'm really just teasing about the breeder, some of 'em are really funny about "their" cats - they never really let them go. I used to take my champion back to "visit" his "birth family" - he was a son of Hatcher Granville's oldest tom (Sonnenhof's Apache of Barba) and was always glad to see him. He would call on all his cousins and uncles and aunts - he made best friends with Hatcher's "boss neuter" Kinkajou (they looked a lot alike) and they would "walk the rounds" around the house, shoulder to shoulder, making sure that all the kittens and queens were behaving themselves.

I'll bet what happened is that somebody bought a breeder's kitten and then couldn't put up with the Siamese voice or the Siamese personality, and rather than return the kit just dumped it by the side of the road. You might take a head shot, front and side (like a mug shot) and circulate it to local breeders seeing if they recognize her. There is a strong family resemblance in most breeders' bloodlines - I could have picked any of MY kittens out of a lineup! :-D

[AnAmericanMother]

Prices depend a lot on the breeder's reputation and that of the sire and dam. A "pet quality" kitten from, say, a tom with a championship and a good pedigree behind him, and a decent queen (say the daughter of a champion herself) should run you anywhere between $300-$400 with a neuter-spay agreement. The prices go up as high as you like from there, I know people who have paid a grand for the "right" cat - one with several very strong bloodlines behind him and already campaigning on the circuit. Once a cat gets a Grand under his belt and starts siring winners, you can pretty much name your price.

[Lady Jag]

I thought she darkened this winter. She's always been a heat seeking missle (if I'd known I'd have bought that heating pad she's always wanted). If she stays warm, she might stay lighter longer?

I'm going to take your advice and not try to find the breeder. When I ran into you and AnAmericanMother and realized you knew a lot it, got my hopes up that the mystery could be solved. Sam amazes and makes me laugh every day and I could never let her go. She's got me wrapped around her little finger to the point my vacations aren't as long as they used to be.

[arasina]

Sort of a cute cat website except they do state that Dick Cheney makes their cat so sick...blah blah blah.

[Lady Jag]

Thanks! That's a good idea to ask Minghou. That Breed List link is fantastic; I'd done searches on Yahoo and Google and not come up with something like that! I looked through some of the Siamese there and they all have different heads. I see how one can distinguish them by family - it is easier to see than I thought it would be.

[TEXOKIE]

Pinging you for a really cool cat thread!

[Lady Jag]

I thought that couch pose would help. That's when she might have been six months old. Having had a multi-cat household all my life, maybe 30 or 40 cats, I can confidently say that this is the happiest cat I have ever seen. She's got tremendous chutzpah yet is the gentlest pet. She's a genius, too. :)

My husband's theory, and he's sticking with it, is that someone dump them. Maybe the pair were a gift and the giftee didn't want them. I heard the animal control officer who kept the male, said the boy was a sealpoint.

[Big Horn]

Very interesting, I enjoy my cats.

[Lady Jag]

If I might ask, can you tell me some of the differences between show quality and pet quality? It's just that I have always been so curious about this amazing cat. Everybody wants her.

One thing that concerns me is her appetite. She has caused us to keep an impeccably clean kitchen because anything that's edible is fair game for her - she's like a dog that way - except that she'll dive into the garbage disposal - you walk into the kitchen and see a long skinny tail sticking straight up from the sink. LOL!

[AnAmericanMother]

I went and dug out my old books - Cormac was born in November '78 and made his championship in early '80 (that Johnson City show was around the first of the year IIRC). I wish I had a photo of him up on the 'net, I'll have to go digging through my scrapbooks and scan something.

My current cats are sort of a grab-bag. The little Lilac whose picture is back up this thread is descended from Maloja's Mr. B, Maloja's Billy Budd (I LOVE the Maloja look - majestic blue points!), the Taikablu BP line, and a whole crowd of Brock'Ann Lilacs. Her grouchy great-uncle the Blue Point is also a Maloja cat on his sire's side, his dam was a delightful BP lady but had Ophir and Thaibok in her background - NOT good for temperament! (I personally witnessed Thaibok Teriyaki take a large chunk out of a judge in the ring next to me!) He also has Fan-T-Cee and Quire Gal-X-C back of him. My "middle cat" the neurotic Siamese was purchased at a show when I fell in love with her dam. She was bred by Catananda, mostly Singa and Bel Canto on her sire's side, and Chanthara on her dam's. She is afraid of children but she loves our dog (go figure!) I think she was traumatized when my kids were toddlers . . . :-(

Went to your website and LOVE your kitties! The blue point girl at 11 mos. is the spitting image of my middle girl, she is now 12, my big male is 14, and the little Lilac is 2 and running the others ragged.

[bert]

....Bob brings home a bird or chipmunk....

Bob is a murderer.

[AnAmericanMother]

When my Lilac girl was a brand new kitty and we brought her home, at about 12 weeks, her fur was so sparse and pale that when she got excited and "fluffed" you could see the pinky skin underneath. She now however has a full and still quite pale coat!

Chocolates are the next-to-rarest color of the four "REAL" colors (there are all sorts of ugly weird ones like Tortie-Point - looks like the cat got left out in the rain). The Seal is dominant, the Blue is a recessive, so a Seal may carry a Blue gene but a Blue will not carry a Seal gene. To complicate matters there is a separate recessive "dilute" factor which will turn a Seal into a Chocolate or a Blue into a Lilac. A Lilac is Blue + dilute (two recessives) and when bred to another Lilac will always give you nothing but Lilacs. Seals may carry both the blue and dilute factors, Blues may carry the dilute factor, and Chocolates may carry the Blue factor since they are a "Seal dilute". (Boy - I bet that doesn't make much sense. Even to me.)

The colors are controlled by heat - the pigment is heat-sensitive and will "burn out". My middle cat for reasons best known to herself likes to sleep with the right side of her face pressed against one of the hot air registers - so she has a little grid pattern in her mask on that side. It looks REALLY weird, but she's happy and she's not shown, so who cares? The big guy sleeps in the bathtub in hot weather, so his sides are VERY dark!

[AnAmericanMother]

If I might ask, can you tell me some of the differences between show quality and pet quality?

If I knew the answer to THAT question, I would have Cat of the Year all the time . . . ;-)

The show quality cat more nearly meets the Breed Standard that is published by the CFA: CFA Siamese Standard

The pet quality cat is one that the breeder would not want to breed from - it usually has some significant deviation from the standard and so would not improve the breed. I would say that the most common things you will see are a steep "break" or stop in the profile at the eyes (a Siamese ought to have as near a smooth line from between the ears to the tip of the nose as possible), a short or thick or kinked tail, undersized ears, or big feet. Muddy or uneven coloring and pale washed out eye color are two other things that will send a cat to the vet to be neutered or spayed.

So long as your kitty is very active, don't worry about her eating. If she's bounding around the house like a lunatic, she's burning all those calories as fast as she can consume them. If her eyes are clear and bright, her coat is shiny and not "staring" - rough and uneven with spiky patches, and she remains active and has good muscle tone, don't worry. That's just her body type, and if you are used to your standard Domestic Shorthair barn cat that probably has a significant amount of heavyweight longhair blood, she's going to look skinny to you. If she seems to be LOSING weight, loses the gloss on her coat, or anything like that, ask the vet to check her out. You also might consider that an active Siamese may need a premium food to get enough quality calories. I now feed mine Pinnacle, which is a sort of kitty natural health food diet, but when I was showing they all ate Science Diet and Iams dry food, supplemented with thawed frozen horsemeat and liquid vitamins.

[Vicki]

I took in a Egyptian Mau years ago and it was very beautiful. I loved her markings. She was good natured. Unfortunately she was killed by the garage door coming down on her.

[AnAmericanMother]

if I'd known I'd have bought that heating pad she's always wanted

LOL! There are pet stores that will happily sell to you a nice sheepskin bed with a pressure sensitive heating pad thermostat controlled for optimum kitty temperature! My cats shove each other out of the way to sleep in it! Of course, they also have a cat tree, a cat hammock in a sunny window, the top shelves of the closet, the bathtub, the kitchen sink (middle cat likes to sleep there), or the middle of whatever book I'm reading . . .

[HetLoo]

Wow, I never heard that about Teriyaki before! He is about 5 generations behind our breeding girl (a lilac) and I always LOVED the way he looks. His profile is to-die-for even by todays standards.

Our girl is Oklahoma bred and comes from older lines, In Lieu (which was right here in Tulsa) Chosen - another OK cattery, Nor-Bob and some others. Consequently she's not as typey as todays show cats and her kits retain some of the classic look. But, she makes up for it by instilling a wonderful, people loving temperment on the more extreme type our boys bring.

This is the father of the blue girl (and all the kits on that page) He is from australia out of Tweema lines

I don't think I've ever heard of Taikablu or Brock'Ann, but I've heard Fan-T-Cee inbred out the wazoo and had some health issues to show for it.

[Lady Jag]

Is it true that Siamese breeders keep kittens longer than other breeds? "Fluffed"? It's the first cat I can recall whose hair stands up on her hips at the base of her tail when she's playful.

I sort of understand your genetics lesson and hope I won't forget it - no, I'm going to paste it into Notepad and read it a few more times.

Okay, so if I heated up the cat, she might lighten up? Do people who show theirs have techniques, like putting sweaters on them?