France is no Eurowimp

National Post ^ | 30 Jan 2003 | Mark Steyn

[Burkeman1]

Oh- I am sure- The French and Russians both have interests in Iraq and have for a long time. It was Russian tanks and SCUDS we were up against in the first Gulf War and the French were the ones building the nuke reactor the Isrealis blew up in 81'. But they were not the ones who stopped us from taking Baghdad and kicking out Sadaam. We never had any intention of doing that.

[freedumb2003]

>>IMO- we would have been better off if Iraq had taken Kuwait and Saudi Arabia back in 91'. I doubt 9/11 would have happened.<<

No, you would just be paying $10/gallon for gas and watching Saddam use that money to grow his army into the second biggest in the world and taking over neigboring countries, including nuclear-posessing Isreal, the resulkt being an eventual stand off we would have a heck of more difficult time winning.

Had Bill Clinton ACCEPTED Bin-Laden when he was offered up, 9/11 would not have happened. You're blaming the wrong president.

[Siobhan]

The best form of government for Iraq after the ouster of Saddam IMHO is a confederation of cantons.

[Siobhan]

Nobody likes the French in my experience, except the French themselves.

That is my experience as well. Where were you in W. Africa?

[tophat9000]

You know, it tells you a lot about the French that there only famous fighting force is the French Foreign Legion

[Burkeman1]

We get ten percent of our oil from the Gulf states. The market is the market. Opec tried that price fixing scheme in the 70's and it was disasterous for them in the long run. We could have bought from Sadaam as easily as we do the Saudi's and the nutjobs who make up AQ would be setting off bombs and crashing planes in Baghdad instead of America and Isreal. Bush I was still in cold war geo strategy mold of thinking back in 91' and that should have ended after the cold war. As for Clinton- well- he was just an incompetent criminal.

[Elenya]

Very interesting article. Would explain a few things...

Overlooked in last week's fuss about Schroeder and Chirac's thumbs-down to Bush was the real meat of their confab: the proposal to create a merged Franco-German citizenship... Now Schroeder and Chirac have effectively announced that at the heart of the European Union will be a Franco-German superstate of 140 million people around which the Dutch and Austrians and other minor satellites cluster like the princely states around British India.

Whoa! Now that's news. That's the first I heard of it. Any link?

[freedumb2003]

Even if I grant you the increased cost argument (which I do not) you fail to address my larger and more compelling argument about Saddam taking over the region.

He would have and it would have been very bad for us indeed -- look at the trouble he is causing WITH a modicum of containment. Imagine if his power grew unchecked.

[SpinyNorman]

France is no Eurowimp

France should be called "Euranus", and it is full of Europu$$ies, not Eurowimps. I might go with Eurowussies as a compromise.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

I love Steyn but I will not stomach a defense of France under any circumstance or perspective. They've had some fifty years to dig this hole and one article doesnt do much to bring them out of it. 60 posted on 01/31/2003 10:55 AM PST by VaBthang4

It's not a defense of France.

To define a thing, is not to defend a thing. An example:

To say that Iraq aspires to “enslave the world” (quoting Frederick U. Dicker, New York Post) is a bit like saying that Jack the Ripper wanted to be king of England. This is not to defend Jack the Ripper; it is to define him. -- Joe Sobran, Jan 14 2003

Steyn is simply defining France as a nation-state which rigorously attends to its own interests. That definition of French foreign policy does not amount to a defense of that policy -- especially since the French see their national interest as being served by a competition between 4 or 5 "Great Powers" with France (or Franco-German Europe) being one of them, and Steyn sees the US national interest as being the sole SuperPower in the world.

Thus, Steyn is not defending the French foreign policy at all -- he is well aware that he (favoring an unchallenged SuperPower status for the US) and the French (who seek the diminution of unilateral US Power in favor of a multilateral Great Power game) are opposed to eachother.

He is simply defining France'sw foreign policy for what it is -- rigorously self-interested (moreso than that of the US).

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

( And So It Begins...)

From whence does this line originate?

It's sampled at the beginning of an Industrial album which I own, but I do not remember the original source.

Thanks, OP

[walkingdead]

"Maybe the taliban were on to something about the women not showing their faces."

Man, I hear that!

[freedumb2003]

>>He is simply defining France'sw foreign policy for what it is -- rigorously self-interested (moreso than that of the US).<<

And backward looking. His definition also notes that France will be sidekick to no one, so the only place to be is on their own and totally irrelevant.

[walkingdead]

"They do have nuclear capabilities. Could be trouble when the muslims take over the country."

Nah, we'll just take out the nukes before that, just like the Brits took out their navy when Hitler was coming...

[camle]

the last time the french sank anything, it was the Rainbow Warrior, from Greenpeace

[Burkeman1]

Well- now we can't let him out of the box with all that has happened.

But for the sake of argument let's say that Bush I didn't do anything when Sadaam went into Kuwait. And let's also speculate that Sadaam kept on rolling and took the Saudi penisula as well. So you have Sadaam Hussein controlling most of the Mideast oil reserves. We haven't done a thing to him. He is not going to sell us oil? He knows that we can still squash him at any time. And who gets all the rage of these Wahhabist Muslem extremeists? Hussein- that's who. I think you would also find Syria suddenly not so much concerned with little Isreal and Lebanon but scared as hell of a Greater Iraq. And further- no more Saudi money going to Islamic extremists. Iran as well would be spending a hell of a lot less time messing about with terrorists groups attacking Isreal and more time dealing with this increased Iraqi threat.

Now lets say that with all this new wealth pouring in Sadaam is able to get the bomb. In fact several bombs. ANd? So what? At this point we are buying oil from him and not his enemy. His regime is most likely plauged with guerilla bands and rebellions of muslem fanatics and he has enemies all about him. We are just a neutral disinterested buyer of oil. His problems are his problems. Is he going to support terrorism against the US? What for? Is he going to attack us? Again- what for and also how?

Who knows? Doesn't matter. At the minimum Sadaam has to be contained now.

[Kenny Bunk]

As I wash down my snail, frog and garlic sandwich with my 5th glass of Beaujolais (just getting the old foie in shape for Bastille Day), I hope your clear and rational post scores some points with the rabid francophobes on the site.The French and Germans are merely trying to revive the Holy Roman Empire, at which time we were just a rumor at some Viking Yacht Club.

I just hope it is clear to my friends in France that the next time the Germans or anyone else gets militarily upset with them, they are on their own. Of course, being a sort of transplanted Frenchman myself, I shall immediately volunteer for the Escadrille Lafayette (Geriatric Wing).

[Dionysius]

The submarine "Tricolor" used to be an automobole transport. It sunk in a shipping lane and to this date three vessels have struck her and gone to watery graves. Vive la France!

[Snerfling]

The best nationalistic slur out there is not our's for the French, but the Australian's for us:

Seppos.

Don't get it? The etymology is thus:

Yank rhymes with Septic 'Tank' = Seppo.

Get it? BTW, it's never said condescendingly; on the contrary, it usually uttered over a couple of bears down at the beach as in, "you bloody Seppos get all the girls".

[Snerfling]

bears = beers

Yipes, I may have started a new series.