France is no Eurowimp

National Post ^ | 30 Jan 2003 | Mark Steyn

[bfree]

Say Chirac suck if you want but stop insulting my country

Your fellow countrymen voted Chirac in, what does that say about your fellow countrymen. Yes, Chirac thinks he leads a world power, but that is just fantasy. Your sorry ass country has sold arms to Libya, Iraq, Iran and numerous other enemies of the US. Why in God's earth should we have any good feelings towards a bunch of socialists? For all the talk of the great French history, it has been a pretty sorry story for the last 50 years. Your elitist socialist attitudes toward the US show that your friendship is not something decent people want or need.

[dalebert]

Maybe France should take a little responsability for its own actions. Why not stand for whats right?

[F16Fighter]

Sure the French can bully around a Greenpeace tug-boat or even a 9th rate African pseudo-nation -- woop-dee-doo...

Everyone, including the French themselves realize they haven't a shred of heart, courage, or integrity in their bones.

[Admin Moderator]

knock it off.

[bfree]

Why delete his posts? Leave them to show what a fool he is.

[Erasmus]

Ahhh yes, only the french can sell their wine made with dirty feet, for hundreds of dollars/bottle.

For that class of grape, toenail fungus is what starts the fermentation.

<)B^), I think.

[virgil]

I think you have been propagandized. The only propaganda I have seen is the left wing brand in the mainstream media. I don't think Bush is a propagandist. I have heard that Schroeder has worked up people into quite a lather of Anti-Americanism in Europe. Why don't you attack that?

[smith288]

You say "I suck" like I care as much as you apparently do. trust me, words dont hurt me and whatever France says, they are still a very snooty, inconsequential country internationally.

Firstly, I dont say "You suck" to the people...I say "You suck" to your pathetic, sissified govt. and secondly, you have to admit, your cheese smells like dookie...

There is some very shady deals Chirac has with Bagdad... its going to be very evident when Saddam goes down. Some say the second Chirac is no longer frances leader, he will be investigated like hell... no wonder he continues to run. He is invincible until then.

[DannyTN]

"France is no euroweenie" not by european standards. It takes one, not to know one.

[desertcry]

Yes, that's the distinctive flavor, and aroma of the french burgandy wine.

[Richard Kimball]

I think you're absolutely correct in your points. I tend to be a little more schizophrenic than some, and can enjoy both some aspects of pop culture and some aspects of intellectual culture. I watched about a half an episode of Jerry Springer and figured out his shtick. Same is true for WWF and soap operas. I don't think you have to immerse yourself in pop culture to understand its influence. OTOH, I get a kick out of the Simpsons, although I don't watch it often.

At the risk of going back on-topic to the thread, France is suffering from the same problem as much of the rest of Europe. Two world wars totally destroyed the spirit of Europe. In the US, we can't really appreciate the toll the war took on them. I commented after the Oklahoma City bombing that I wondered how we would react when something really bad happened. Understand, I'm not trying to belittle Oklahoma City, but put in WWII perspective, 167 dead isn't that many. After the World Trade Center, I still ask the same question.

The experience of Germany at the end of WWII is illustrative. We spent nearly a year recovering from the loss of 3,000 people at the World Trade Center. In the bombing of Dresden, best estimates are that 135,000 civilians were killed in two days of sustained fire bombing. After the war, the Soviets occupied much of Germany. Most of the German men were dead, and many German women became sex slaves to the Russians. In an ironic change from the Jews hiding, young German girls were hidden in attics so they would not be raped by Russian soldiers.

When I was younger, I dated a girl whose mother was a French Jew, and lived in France during the occupation. She worked at a nursery, although she had a college degree. I asked her why she wasn't teaching at a college. She told me the records were lost during the war. When I asked her why she didn't get copies from her college, she told me the college was destroyed during the war. I stated that surely records existed somewhere. She told me that she could not even prove that she or any of her family ever existed. Their entire history had been erased.

In the US, we have not had a war on our soil since 1865. Neither our parents, their parents or their parents know what it is like to see our cities bombed, our houses occupied and our women and children raped and murdered on a mass scale.

We think it's against the rules to have a war on American soil. I'm not defending France, and believe that it's better to have the war over there than over here. However, would Americans be the same if we had gone through what Europe went through in the twentieth century?

[Atchafalaya]

Blew the bottom out at the dock, sank in place, and 2 or 3 greenies died. Merde!

[Burkeman1]

I wouldn't say the French suffered all that much during WWII. They lost about 120,000 combined from civilian and military casualties. America suffered 300,000 dead. Yes- Europe did suffer horribly from those wars. But nothing more than the rest of the world suffers all the time. America is extremely unique in the History of the world.

But we shouldn't make light of the Civil War. Other than the Tai Ping Rebellion in China it was the bloodiest war of the 19th century. More than half a million combatants died and two times that rendered maimed for life (Alabama's number one budget expense after the Civil War was for crutches and for primitive artificial limbs.) Civilian casualties of the Civil War remain a topic up for grabs. Some say as few as 20 thousand while others say as many as a quarter of a million due to starvation or disease.

But Europe got a glimpse of what WWI was going to be like from the American Civil War. Out of a total population of 40 million people about 2 percent of the male population was dead. Another 4 percent was maimed for life. Considering the age range of most soldiers both North and South were 16 to 25- you have a good quarter of an entire generation wiped out. Think of the friends you grew up with. One in every four would be dead or without an arm, a leg, or an eye. And even though the North suffered more casualties than the South- this ratio would have been more like one in every two for the former confederate states.

One could argue that since Europe has suffered so much of this death and horror and have direct memories of it- they are used to it and are much more jaded than we are. Perhaps they know this as well and that is a reason we are now in Bosnia and Kosovo when they were not willing to stop it? Perhaps they knew that all they would have to do in Yugo was nothing and wait for America to come to the rescue- meanwhile the don't spend anything on their military and we are left holding the bag?

[Constantine XIII]

he he he...

[yendu bwam]

Hey Siobhan - I was in the Peace Corps in Togo, and also traveled to several other West African countries. It is a wonderful and beautiful place with warm and wonderful people - though it is marred by horrendous poverty and suffering. Part of my heart will remain forever there.

[wizardoz]

Hey, I found it!

[wizardoz]

There was no chance of Saddam "blackmailing" the USA with oil in 1990 until we made him our Enemy. ... Playing "favorites" among vipers like these is just asking for trouble, especially when either would have been equally happy to sell us oil (or blackmail us) before we stuck our nose in.

I'm no expert in Middle Eastern history, for sure... but didn't Saddam "nationalize" (steal) those oil wells in the 1970s? Didn't they belong to American and British companies until he did that? I don't believe the Saudis ever nationalized our wells, did they? Isn't that some justification for protecting Kuwait and Saudi from Saddam? That they stick with the deals we brokered, while he violated and stole?

[Bigg Red]

Excellent points all.