Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Bang Bang, Your Suit's Dead - Two courtrooms wins for the Second Amendment
Wall Street Journal ^ | January 29, 2003 | Collin Levey

Posted on 01/29/2003 5:28:21 AM PST by Stand Watch Listen

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:05:09 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

This week, two unlikely judges shared a small moment of justice on behalf of the Second Amendment.

In Florida, Judge Jorge Labarga, of butterfly ballot fame, threw out a $1.2 million award against the distributor of a handgun used by a kid to shoot his teacher. In the Ninth Circuit, Carter appointee Stephen Reinhardt returned to an earlier antigun opinion and deleted references to the work of Michael Bellesiles, the historian whose Bancroft Prize was revoked because of serious questions about the honesty of his scholarship.


(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-43 next last
To: FreeTally
Then BH would put you in the same catagory as me, ie; advocating a violent felony against a federal employee.

He completely refused to see the point that the federal employee was in the wrong to begin with, as well as who ever wrote the park regulations to begin with. Depriving them of their property is almost tangenial to the point that she pointed a loaded weapon at them, and under color of authority, forced them to give up their possessions.

21 posted on 01/29/2003 7:52:27 AM PST by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: FreeTally
Don't get me wrong, I understand how things are currently run in the court system. My purposal is just a "what would you think about this system instead" kinda thing.

I really don't approve of how things are currently being run.

24 posted on 01/29/2003 7:57:05 AM PST by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Dead Corpse
Then BH would put you in the same catagory as me, ie; advocating a violent felony against a federal employee.

I think anyone who accpets employment to enforce laws that deprive another of their natural rights gets what they deserve when the person who's rights are being violated resists. I have no pitty for them.

When I was younger and naive, I thought about going into law enforcement. I then realized a little later that I'd be forced to enforce laws that are wrong. Even if a shurked my duty and let people slide who committed "victimless crimes", I would still be representing an entity that violates people's rights under the color of law. I'm glad I wised up and saw that before I went down that career path.

25 posted on 01/29/2003 7:57:34 AM PST by FreeTally (How did a fool and his money get together in the first place?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: ScottBuck; Dead Corpse
Most states also have a Rule 11 or some version of it that mirrors the federal rule.

That's what I was thinking of, DC.

26 posted on 01/29/2003 7:58:34 AM PST by FreeTally (How did a fool and his money get together in the first place?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: ScottBuck
Thanks Scott. I had no idea the Brits did that kind of thing. Would you happen to know how it's working out for them in situations like these? I know that for the most part, their "justice system" is in worse shape than ours.
27 posted on 01/29/2003 7:58:43 AM PST by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: FreeTally
My father was a LEO for most of my life. He was one of the "good guys". He took an early retirement. These goons running around these days really make me wonder how things have gotten this bad this fast.
28 posted on 01/29/2003 8:03:48 AM PST by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Stand Watch Listen

29 posted on 01/29/2003 8:05:28 AM PST by null and void
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Dead Corpse
Don't get me wrong, I understand how things are currently run in the court system. My purposal is just a "what would you think about this system instead" kinda thing.

It would definitely cut way down on the number of suits, both frivolous and legitimate ones. I just don't want to see someone who rightfully brought a suit, but lost because they didn't have enough evidence, be punished.

Such a system may also create sort of a catch-22 on a psycological level. A jury, knowing how the system you propose works, could easily get a mindset of, "Well, the plantif surely wouldn't file such a suit if it wasn't true, considering he/she must pay is we find for the defendant". That wouldn't be good because a person who files such a suit(or the attorney who advised them to) could start thinking "well the jury would have to think I am an idiot to bring false charges considering I have to pay if I lose". I think it creates a potential psychological battle between a jury and the plantiff(and attorney). I may be wrong, but I don't always trust juries to be objective when looking at evidence.

31 posted on 01/29/2003 8:07:35 AM PST by FreeTally (How did a fool and his money get together in the first place?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: FreeTally
How did a fool and his money get together in the first place?

I'm working on it!

32 posted on 01/29/2003 8:59:19 AM PST by null and void (<------ Will micromachine for money...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: FreeTally
Grunow earlier sued McCray and the pawn shop that sold the gun and both settled out of court for a total of $575,000.
---CNN, November 15, 2002

The $75 million lawsuit was only against Valor, but the jury found that the uncle and the school were also responsible. They awarded $24 million to Grunow, $1.2 million (5%) from Valor, $10.8 million (45%) from the school board, and $12 million (50%) from the uncle, McCray.

A couple of questions come to mind. Why didn't the jury find the pawn shop liable? Why didn't Grunow include the school in her suit? If McCray settled out of court, how can he be held liable again?

According to the CNN (11-15-02) article:

"McCray and the school board were not defendants in the suit."

"Grunow's attorney, Robert Montgomery, ... said he would go back to court to ask the judge to hold Valor responsible for the entire damages."

I'm guessing, but I think that, since McCray and the school board weren't named in the suit, they're not liable. The attorney screwed up, so then he asked for the whole $24 million from Valor.

Now that the suit against Valor is thrown out, the widow is left with $575,000 less attorneys fees.

33 posted on 01/29/2003 9:20:23 AM PST by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen
A couple of questions come to mind. Why didn't the jury find the pawn shop liable?

Who knows. Why did they even find Valor liable when no evidence of negligence was presented?

Why didn't Grunow include the school in her suit?

Probably because the school had settled the claim against it. I guess there were three separate suits.

If McCray settled out of court, how can he be held liable again?

He can't. I try to not interchange the words, but there is a difference in civil court between one being found "liable" and one being found "responsible". The jury can attach a % of reposnsibility to a third person not party to the suit(they could have found Brazill 100% responsible), but only a party to the suit is actually liable. Its really confusing.

Now that the suit against Valor is thrown out, the widow is left with $575,000 less attorneys fees.

Yep, that looks about right.

34 posted on 01/29/2003 9:29:11 AM PST by FreeTally (How did a fool and his money get together in the first place?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: FreeTally
"Probably because the school had settled the claim against it. I guess there were three separate suits."

Found it:

"She previously agreed not to sue the school board in exchange for an annuity that will provide income equal to the amount her husband would have earned before retirement."

35 posted on 01/29/2003 9:52:33 AM PST by robertpaulsen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Boot Hill; Roscoe; Cultural Jihad
PING
36 posted on 01/29/2003 10:22:38 AM PST by FF578
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: FF578
Truth isn't his long suit.
37 posted on 01/29/2003 10:29:38 AM PST by Roscoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Stand Watch Listen
Michael Bellesiles, the historian whose Bancroft Prize was revoked because of serious questions answers about the dishonesty of his scholarship

The WSJ should be ashamed of itself.

38 posted on 01/29/2003 10:36:20 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: robertpaulsen
"She previously agreed not to sue the school board in exchange for an annuity that will provide income equal to the amount her husband would have earned before retirement."

Good find.

The school maybe the only ones that any claim could be made against. I think the contention was that Brazill was told to go home and the school apparently had little in place that would prevent a student sent home from comming back. Its probably a stretch, but I could see why a jury would see it this way.

39 posted on 01/29/2003 10:59:07 AM PST by FreeTally (How did a fool and his money get together in the first place?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Stand Watch Listen
Those who hoped or feared the guns were the next tobacco should be beginning to realize it won't be.

In all of my years of studying history, I have never heard of a case in which a population won or protected its liberty while armed with cigarettes. What these folks didn't, don't and apparently can't understand is that the possession of weapons by the general populace is both a symbol of liberty and an important tool for obtaining and keeping that liberty. As a result, very few people are willing to part with their weapons because someone else has done something wrong, and those trying to deprive them of those weapons (properly) are forced to contemplate their premature demise.

40 posted on 01/29/2003 11:03:34 AM PST by Ancesthntr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-43 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson