Freeper Help/Advice Requested With Work Issue

OKSooner ^ | 01-26-03 | OKSooner

[OKSooner]

Okay, gang, here goes: Exasperating problem with office politics and conflicting prioritites from management. Anyone got any free advice?

[anniegetyourgun]

Stay on target with your assigned job. Maintain impeccable integrity and professionalism. Don't fight fire with fire, except to the extent that taking the high road will drive the lowroad folks nuts. (See President Bush for contemporary example.) Begin your job search tomorrow morning. You're better than this and don't need to wallow with pigs.

[eaglescout]

"Particularly frustrating is the JTA's technique of seizing the initiative in discussions. Any questions from the JTA are worded as follows: "AND THOSE ARE..." "AND THE REASON THIS IS BETTER THAN THIS IS..." "AND THE REASON THIS IS REXX INSTEAD OF CLIST IS...""

Assumming the JTA is incorrect in these assertions ...

You need to (ever so gently) reveal the underlying assumptions.

JTA: X is always preferable to Y.
YOU: Always? Do you know of any exceptions?

JTA: X is supposed to preceed Y.
YOU: What would happen if Y came before X?

JTA: X does Y.
YOU: How exactly does X do Y?

JTA: X is better than Y.
YOU: How is X better than Y. Is Z better than Y, too?

Also, tradeoffs are usually involved but often unrecognized. Bring them up.

Maybe the JTA is right. Maybe a few questions (demands for specifics, actually) will reveal a better way.

Warning: Do not use these techniques on your wife.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Learn to play the game.:) You have found out that you have wound up working for someone that is dumber that you are. It happens all the time. And the reason for it is simple, your managers, boss doesn't want someone just under him that he can't control, so they install someone that is not a threat to themsefs.

Forget your manager, forget the dummy, do an end around, start playing the game with the REAL power to be at the company, his BOSS, the next rung up the ladder. Find time to spend time with him, lunch, after meetings, whatever and whenever you can, and when you do this, don't talk at all about yourself, talk about what he wants to talk about, and find common ground, people like to talk about their selfs, what they want out of life, here is the key! When you find out what he wants or the next rung up the ladder he wants to rise to, let him know you can help him get there, that way your not a threat but a ally that will help him get there, you will be supprised to find that he will bring you along with him to the top. Forget what you want and help the REAL power to get what he wants.

It don't matter one bit how good you are if ya can't play the game better than the dummy you're talking about, the real power will just see him as someone else he can install under him that he doesn't have to worry about, the real trick is when you want to bump the real power off and take his job, it can be done, but he can't see it comming, that is if you want stoop this low. :) And that my friend is why I went into buss for my self. :)

BigMack

[Nick Danger]

What katnip said.

[mommadooo3]

When in Rome, play as the Roman. (JTA)

[Vigilantcitizen]

After reading your story, I humbly offer these words of advice...

First, it sounds to me as if your manager is not a very self confident person. Managers who are insecure about their own abilities often treat star employees bad, because they are scared of the star taking their posistion. Bad managers surround themselves with people they feel are less intelligent than themselves. Bad managers are also quick to place blame on a suboordinate that makes a mistake, rather than taking some responsibility for the actions of those under them.

A good, competent manager wants themselves surrounded by as talented a group as possible. The good manager is not worried about a suboordinate taking their job, because the good manager is confident in their abilities. A good manager takes responsibility for the work of those under them. A good manager does not let personal feelings affect their judgement of suboordinates job perfomance, as your manager has done with the JTA.

All that being said, you'll never change your manager's ways, no matter what. If he wants to be a bad manager, just try to deal with it as best you can and fully concentrate on the job at hand. Don't go to his superiors, don't down talk him to fellow employees, just take the high road and let your job performance speak for you.

The meeting with the manager and a third party is a good idea and the right thing to do, but I'd be willing to bet it doesn't work. Those kind of people just don't change.

I've got more, but a previous engagement awaits, but I'll return later. Good luck.

[OKSooner]

Editorial point, the "AND THOSE ARE..." things are spoken as open-ended questions, intended to elicit a specific answer from me while at the same time seizing the initiative in the conversation.

Really a pretty good trick, except it's being played on me.

[stylin19a]

Also reckless and inept from a technical standpoint
This seems key to me, and should be documented/proven at every turn.
And this comes from someone who just had his hat handed to him for taking an unwarranted risk that backfired.
(Thou shalt not muck with files without first taking a backup.)

It would seem to me, that the Tech's questions are really assertions. I would be calling her on that in a heartbeat. ( Hey Tech..is there a question in there somewhere?)
If your boss is the person you say, then bringing another manager to the meeting as a mediator, will probably cook your goose in the long run, and it probably wont change any perceptions your manager already has.

good luck however it turns out.

[Ann Archy]

It's sounds like the classic "be nice to the girl" situation that Rush alsways talks about.

Take kvar's advice...there is no winning. I woud cancel the show-down meeting....you will have a hard time winning....he'll think you are just a hard-nose.

Shine and be big-hearted in your committee meetings, showing that you get along with EVERYBODY, and throw a "bone" to the "chick" with a compliment on her work every now and then, if warranted.

I am just a housewife with opinions out the whazoo....ignore everything I said above...I know nothing about the workplace!

[OKSooner]

Ping...

[WVNan]

Unknown Freeper and kcar have your best advice. You may not like being extra nice to the Manag., but even Jesus suggested this approach. If someone forces you to carry his cloak for one mile, carry it for two miles. Look for things about the Manag. that you can compliment him on and be genuine about it (everyone is not a complete as***le). I once had a boss who yelled at me about everything I did. According to her I couldn't do anything right. I hated her so much, but I knew I had to learn to love her because I believe in the Great Commandment. I prayed about it and the answer came in a dream. She was the best (a know-it-all) I had ever seen at her job. If I was so dumb, I wanted to learn from the best. So I went to her and told her that I was sorry I had been such a miserable employee, but I really wanted to be the best and so I wanted to learn from the best. I asked her to teach me to be the best. In the process of training, we became very good friends and I learned to love her. You can destroy an enemy by becoming their friend. Take him out to lunch. Take him golfing, hunting, fishing or whatever he likes to do. The young lady is stroking his ego. You can do the same thing. And as UF said, make copies of everything you do and send to other officials as well as to the Manag. Other good advice is to become a permanent job hunter. My husband was a professional job hunter. No matter who he worked for he was always looking for another job. If someone offered him a better deal he took it. He was never out of a job. He was in a situation similar to yours once. As a salesman for a truck-driving school he had to depend on leads from the front office. Turns out the woman salesperson was getting all the leads because she was (shall we say) friendly with the boss. Hubby just hung in for a bit while he looked for another job, then moved on when he found a much better one. One factor you didn't mention is your age. A lot of companies will find reasons to let older employees go to avoid paying retirements. It's a fact of life. Every man should be prepared for such an event. Oh, about the ...is questions...."my dear, it depends on what the meaning of is, is." Good luck and God bless.

[Scupoli]

All the principles are male, except the character code-named "JTA".

This is the core of your problem. Your manager is getting something from JTA that he is not getting from you (thank God). It may simply be ego boosting or the boosting of another body part *ahem*. You cannot compete with that. You will not win. Job advancement and performance evals have very little to do with skill (in my experience). People like JTA will charm both men and women to get ahead. They do not care who they trample over and will turn on anyone who ceases to be useful. Your boss is an idiot for falling for this one. But that's beside the point.

My completely objective outsider opinion is this: befriend the higher ups. Look into other positions within your company and outside of it. JTA is after your job. Even if she gets a higher position she will still make your life a living hell. You could try and wait this out but unless she quits, gets fired, or transfered, you are stuck. Good luck.

[OKSooner]

A-List ping to both of you, also.

[eaglescout]

I'm sorry for not understanding that JTA was asking questions rather than making assertions (though a question mark before the close quote might have been helpful).

1. If it will move the meeting along, answer the question. You are being offered a chance to show the truth and beauty of your position.

2. If answering the question will bog the meeting down (ie. the topic is too technical for other participants), tell JTA that you'll explain later. Then, later, being the good mentor that you are, explain it.

3. Open-ended questions are not as helpful as specific questions. Point out to JTA that the question she has asked has vexed mankind since the beginning of time, and you would prefer to know EXACTLY what's unclear TO HER.

4. Because time is precious, you might ask the rest of the group if they want to spend it listening to you answer JTA's question. This gives Bob (who thinks very highly of himself and believes that the meeting is a complete waste of time anyway) a chance to say, "No, I think we're all pretty clear on that."

[Lurkus Maximus]

You may wish to consider the following book:

"Don't let Jerks get the best of you. Advice for Dealing with difficult people." By Paul Meier, M.D. ISBN 0-7852-8019-7

He trys to tell you

1) How to recover from jerk abuse that you may have already suffered in the past

2) How to prevent or at least strongly curtail abuse from jerks, particularly Second-Degree or Nth Degree Jerks who may be in a position to affect you and your family adversely

3) How to deal with your masochistic tendencies and their roots, such as false guilt, and a certain sense of pervading shame that you probably aren't even aware of, but it all sets you up for jerk abuse, just the same

Unfortunately, it sounds like you have a few jerks in your work life. Good luck to you.

[OKSooner]

Ping.

[OKSooner]

Only one and a half, thanks. (You figure out the distribution.)

[OKSooner]

Thanks for the book referral, also.

[gitmo]

Kcar nailed it. You're not going to convince your boss to downgrade his opinion of JTA. And your boss is definitely insecure.

In this business, its very common to have management that has less of a grasp of the technical issues and a weaker understanding of how systems are working. You can't stay focused as a manager and keep up-to-date on technology. But your bigger issue is the inability of the boss to divorce himself from JTA's appeal. He knows your the real bench strength.

Work toward getting in a new position. Either you'll land a bigger/better spot or your boss will be moved out.

[OKSooner]

Ping.