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Dennis Miller on Abortion
http://www.valleyskeptic.com/dm_abortion.html ^

Posted on 01/22/2003 8:00:21 AM PST by no other way out

Now I don't want to get off on a rant here, because basically tonight's topic is a minefield - Abortion. I couldn't be anymore on tiptoes if the show was being produced by George Balanchine. This is the Big Debate, and I'm talking bigger than who was the better Darren on Bewitched. Abortion is our nation's "Final Jeopardy," and I'll wager, Alex, that if our nation fights another Civil War, it will be about this. And I would remind you that this all from my perspective, the male perspective, a one-step-removed perspective, because I will obviously never have to decide on whether or not I should have an abortion. And by the way, my belief is that if men were the ones getting pregnant, abortions would be easier to get than food poisoning in Moscow. Having men decide the fate of a woman's reproductive system makes about as much sense as asking Quentin Crisp to coach the Raiders. All right, enough qualifying, let's get on with it. There's no doubt that passions run high on both sides, and this issue has created a divide in this country not seen since Carly Simon last yawned in public. The prevailing opinions on a woman's freedom to choose are going further to the right than a Greg Norman tee shot.

Pro-life activists attempt to paint anyone pro-choice as having no morals. On the other side of the ledger, pro-choicers are tagging pro-lifers as crazed and backward bible-thumpers bent on running the lives of the people who disagree with them. The truth, as always, is, the case of human endeavors lies somewhere in between. As much as the advance scouts on either side of this issue might not want to admit it, good people do get abortions and other good people are pained by their decision to get one.

Where do I stand? Well, I'm like most of you, I presume, I think there are far too many abortions performed in this country. And I also believe that at the end of the day, as much as I might disapprove, none of them are really any of my business. Look, there are always going to be arguments on this issue. The debate will rage until the end of time no matter what the whim of the Papal infallibility or the politics of the decade. But the simple truth is, that such a passionate and personal decision dictates that the choice be left to the individual. And you know, that's really all we can do, because we're just human beings, stumbling around in the dark, trying to get to the bathroom and kicking the shit out of our shins on the way there.

Now there's some things all right-minded human beings should agree on. We should all agree that abortions should be legal in the case of rape, incest and when the mother's life is at risk -- that's just common sense. But excluding that obvious assumption, everything else in the abortion arena is "in play." There are many quagmires complicating this issue. Religion. Now it seems that religion is most often the backboard for every bank shot put up by someone making it their business to get into your business. Roman Catholic doctrine forbids abortion. Fine. Take that into consideration when you make your decision. Right-to-life proponents contend that abortion is immoral. Fine. Take that into consideration when you make your decision. Another pothole on the road to a sensible resolution to abortion is "when does life begin?" At conception? When a heartbeat is detected? At the first drawn breath? You know, for me it wasn't until last Tuesday. Until then I was just a sperm with an accountant! Okay, so those are the variables, and there are obviously millions more variables that make each individual case unique. But the more you think about it, and the more it makes your head spin, and the more confused you get trying to figure out someone else's life for them, it becomes increasingly apparent that it has to be the call of the individual who is pregnant, because the collective, one way or another, won't have to suffer the consequences of that most personal of all decisions.

My fellow Americans, it is time to suck it up. Look deep into your immortal soul (if you believe you have one) and do the right thing. Have the courage and strength to live your own life, by your own standards, and stop trying to call the shots for everyone else. We all live with glaring inconsistencies, and sometimes, when you see something going on right in front of you that offends you to the very core of your being, sometimes the best thing you can do is walk away, because you know that's exactly what you would want them to do for you. There's only one judge on all this and that's God. And you don't get to meet him until you go backstage after the play is over. And believe me, you do not want to get a "thumbs down" from the guy who created thumbs, all right? In the interim, everybody has got to tend their own garden vis-a-vis abortion. And remember, when it comes to your body, only you wear the robes, and only you carry the gavel.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: abortion
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To: Hildy
Saying the keeping slaves in the past was the same kind of choice as abortion is today is absurd and I don't think I need to explain that fact to any intelligent person here on FR.
61 posted on 01/22/2003 9:43:40 AM PST by Hildy (I)
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To: nevergore
I don't know where I stand on abortion, but my heart of hearts tells me that the reason some men are so psychotically against it is that it's the only thing that women have COMPLETE control over.
62 posted on 01/22/2003 9:45:36 AM PST by Hildy (I)
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To: ApesForEvolution
I'll repost what I wrote earlier. Here is my view of the abortion debate in a nutshell:

A) Nobody would advocate killing the baby after it's born. (Well, hardly anybody but we don't care about them for the moment).

B) Nobody wants to ban condoms. (Well, hardly anybody but we don't care about them for the moment).

C) SO... at what point between A and B do you want it to be illegal? That's the grey area.

Personally, I don't have a problem with wearing condoms, or if my partner took a "morning after" pill.

After 1 month of pregnancy, I still think it'd be ok. After that I'd think it was killing another being.

63 posted on 01/22/2003 9:48:48 AM PST by thisiskubrick (may the running liberal pig-dogs be turned into bbq toasties in the sea of fire)
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To: MHGinTN
Just say "child molesting."

Explain to me the difference between child molesting (very non-PC) and child abortion (very PC).

Dan
64 posted on 01/22/2003 9:51:02 AM PST by BibChr
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To: MJM59
You can't possibly be this ignorant. Pro-life people give 100s of millions of dollars a year for crisis pregnancy centers which help single mothers who want to give birth to their babies, but do not have support from family members, friends or the father. They give these women pre and post natal healthcare, they take the women into their homes, are they help them after the pregnancy to either put the child up for adoption or to raise the child themselves. The pro-choice people are the 1st class hypocites. They are all for choice, as long as the choice is to kill the baby. Planned Parenthood does not spend a cent on helping women who choose not to abort their babies.

Isn't it obvious why women are abandoning their babies, given the legallity of abortion? If it is legal to kill a baby halfway through the birth canal, why shouldn't it also be legal to kill or abandon a child after it's born?

Regarding your opposition to the upcoming war in Iraq, realize that this country spends billions of dollars to develop weapons that kill as few people as possible. Why don't we use tactical nuclear weapons when it would be cheaper and much more effective at killing the enemy? The reason is that we value life, even the enemy who has sworn to kill us if they can. War regrettably is sometime necessary to prevent further loss of life. Tell me is it morally right for a policeman to kill a criminal or terrorist who is threatening to kill someone else? Of course it is. And it is morally right to stop Hussein who is a madman who has no regard for the life of anyone else. How do you propose we stop him? Negotiate? Was it morally wrong for the allies in WWII to stop Hilter and the Japanese? Should we have negotiated some more with Hilter, pleading with him to spare the Jews?

65 posted on 01/22/2003 9:52:46 AM PST by Pres Raygun
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To: no other way out
"The truth, as always, is, the case of human endeavors lies somewhere in between."

Why do proponents of some golden mean tell us to avoid extremes, then go right ahead and use the extreme term "always?" Shouldn't they say "usually" or "often?" That is "somewhere in between" always and never, after all.

66 posted on 01/22/2003 9:57:16 AM PST by Caesar Soze
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To: thisiskubrick
Here is my view of the abortion debate in a nutshell: Sorry, I am not clear on what you are saying. As killing a child is not advocated (A) and nobody wants to ban condoms (B), where lies the point that abortion is illegal(C)? Are you stating that the use of condoms is a method of abortion? Please explain. Thanks.
67 posted on 01/22/2003 10:00:59 AM PST by new cruelty (Read this tagline, then see the movie!)
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To: thisiskubrick
Previous post reformatted for your viewing pleasure : )

Here is my view of the abortion debate in a nutshell:

Sorry, I am not clear on what you are saying.

As killing a child is not advocated (A) and nobody wants to ban condoms (B), where lies the point that abortion is illegal(C)?

Are you stating that the use of condoms is a method of abortion? Please explain. Thanks.

68 posted on 01/22/2003 10:03:21 AM PST by new cruelty (Read this tagline, then see the movie!)
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To: thisiskubrick
The line is where we as a society are sure that abortion is not murder. We shouldn't be willing to end life indiscriminantly because no one has proved to our satisfation that we ARE killing a human being, we should forbid the killing until someone can prove that we are NOT killing a human being.
You are right about the fuzziness of the line, but only for some people. There is only one time in the human life cycle when a monumentous change takes place...conception, when the cells of two individuals combine to form a new, unique, individual cell, which from that point on, unless stopped by a variety of methods, will develop into a viable human being. After conception there is growth, specialization, and maturation, but never again the type of change that happened at fertilization. For me the line is clear, I think others move the line away from fertilization without any scientific or logical basis for doing so.
The point is, if no one knows for sure where the line is, in which direction should we err?

O2

69 posted on 01/22/2003 10:09:22 AM PST by omegatoo ("sorry to post and run, but I must....talk amongst yourselves")
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To: no other way out
I'm sure Dennis Miller would have let Willy Sutton continue robbing banks until he met his maker.

I believe that the magnitude of the Abortion slaughter is not widely understood. Maybe an analogy would be instructional.

When the TWA800 tragedy occurred, a wave of trauma swept the country. Most people understood the loss of 230 lives. If the annual 1.5 MILLION abortions/year is converted into TWA800 tragedies, there would have to be a TWA800 tragedy EVERY 90 MINUTES AROUND THE CLOCK, EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR to eliminate the same number of lives!
70 posted on 01/22/2003 10:15:12 AM PST by leprechaun9
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To: no other way out
How quaint! Unfortunately its our taxes that are paying for this abomination.
71 posted on 01/22/2003 10:15:42 AM PST by MoGalahad
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To: CaptainJustice
To that Hilary chick:
Uh, abortion isnt about control, its about humanity.

I dont desire to "control women thru outlawing abortion", I desire to SAVE LIVES!

I love what that other guy said about ignoring the elephant in the room: ITS A DEAD BABY!

I'm disgusted by the Left because they wont admit it. Its a baby 2 minutes after birth, and 1 min after, and 30 sec after, and also 2 sec after, and .05 sec after. But two days BEFORE birth, its just a "mass of cells, inhuman". Thats BS and no one really believes that.

A fetus is AS human as a 90 yr old woman. Its a human being at different stages of development. But its still a person.
72 posted on 01/22/2003 10:25:52 AM PST by CaptainJustice
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To: BibChr
Here's the issue from a libertarian perspective: those things that you mention are violations of another persons right to life, liberty or property and the use of government force is justified. The point in the abortion debate, as pertaining to libertarian doctrine, is the definition of a "person". Once the point had been established of when a fetus becomes a person, then the use of government force to protect that persons right to life.

The debate, as always, is what defines a Person.

73 posted on 01/22/2003 10:33:30 AM PST by Wyatt's Torch
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To: Slyfox
And she is justifiably not in her usual mind.

I'd be interested to know if this has ever been tried in a court of law. As you may know, contracts are not enforceable if one of the parties was not "of their right mind" when the agreement was entered into.

74 posted on 01/22/2003 10:36:47 AM PST by Wyatt's Torch
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To: Wyatt's Torch
You have a point. But, unlike pro-aborts, it isn't necessarily a distinctly religious issue.

What do you have in a "fetus"? From conception you have a distinct and different DNA mapping. As the child develops, you have a distinct life. You may even, as in my case, have a different sex, and a different blood-type. From at least the third week, you have a different heartbeat, and shortly after that you have different brainwaves.

Now those are all brute facts. If you start getting into functional areas like self-consciousness, etc., then you let yourself into a trackless, endless, hopeless swamp. You would never make a definition of "personhood" that would make sense laid against sleeping people, comatose people, paralytics, amputees....

Best to stay away from the functional, and stick with the factual. When a male dog impregnates a female dog, what does she carry? Little dogs. When a male human impregnates a female human, what does she carry?

Little humans.

And they have a right to life.

Dan

75 posted on 01/22/2003 10:40:01 AM PST by BibChr
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To: thisiskubrick
Conception is the beginning of life for a man or woman. It can not be stopped, only ended. Abortion is murder. No other word for it, period.
76 posted on 01/22/2003 10:42:55 AM PST by ApesForEvolution (This space for rent (Not accepting bids from the United Nations))
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To: omegatoo
The point is when a man's sperm and a woman's egg unite, a new man or new woman is created. Not a dog, not a horse, not a cat, not a shrew...a man or a woman. Everytime. Abortion is the murder of a man or a woman that has no voice and is defenseless. It's the height of cowardly, selfish behavior.
77 posted on 01/22/2003 10:48:06 AM PST by ApesForEvolution (This space for rent (Not accepting bids from the United Nations))
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To: BibChr
Dan, exactly. The contortions that baby butchers make to keep their 'out' from what is a very uncomfortable consequence for many is chilling. Little Hitlers running all over America...
78 posted on 01/22/2003 10:50:13 AM PST by ApesForEvolution (This space for rent (Not accepting bids from the United Nations))
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To: no other way out
We all live with glaring inconsistencies, and sometimes, when you see something going on right in front of you that offends you to the very core of your being, sometimes the best thing you can do is walk away, because you know that's exactly what you would want them to do for you.

I wonder if he'd say the same for wife-beating or child-abuse or other kinds of murders.

79 posted on 01/22/2003 10:52:26 AM PST by FITZ
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To: thisiskubrick
After 1 month of pregnancy, I still think it'd be ok. After that I'd think it was killing another being.

So you think that human life begins beteween the 30th and 31st day of pregnancy because that feels about right to you?

80 posted on 01/22/2003 10:53:39 AM PST by PBRSTREETGANG
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