Posted on 01/22/2003 8:00:21 AM PST by no other way out
Now I don't want to get off on a rant here, because basically tonight's topic is a minefield - Abortion. I couldn't be anymore on tiptoes if the show was being produced by George Balanchine. This is the Big Debate, and I'm talking bigger than who was the better Darren on Bewitched. Abortion is our nation's "Final Jeopardy," and I'll wager, Alex, that if our nation fights another Civil War, it will be about this. And I would remind you that this all from my perspective, the male perspective, a one-step-removed perspective, because I will obviously never have to decide on whether or not I should have an abortion. And by the way, my belief is that if men were the ones getting pregnant, abortions would be easier to get than food poisoning in Moscow. Having men decide the fate of a woman's reproductive system makes about as much sense as asking Quentin Crisp to coach the Raiders. All right, enough qualifying, let's get on with it. There's no doubt that passions run high on both sides, and this issue has created a divide in this country not seen since Carly Simon last yawned in public. The prevailing opinions on a woman's freedom to choose are going further to the right than a Greg Norman tee shot.
Pro-life activists attempt to paint anyone pro-choice as having no morals. On the other side of the ledger, pro-choicers are tagging pro-lifers as crazed and backward bible-thumpers bent on running the lives of the people who disagree with them. The truth, as always, is, the case of human endeavors lies somewhere in between. As much as the advance scouts on either side of this issue might not want to admit it, good people do get abortions and other good people are pained by their decision to get one.
Where do I stand? Well, I'm like most of you, I presume, I think there are far too many abortions performed in this country. And I also believe that at the end of the day, as much as I might disapprove, none of them are really any of my business. Look, there are always going to be arguments on this issue. The debate will rage until the end of time no matter what the whim of the Papal infallibility or the politics of the decade. But the simple truth is, that such a passionate and personal decision dictates that the choice be left to the individual. And you know, that's really all we can do, because we're just human beings, stumbling around in the dark, trying to get to the bathroom and kicking the shit out of our shins on the way there.
Now there's some things all right-minded human beings should agree on. We should all agree that abortions should be legal in the case of rape, incest and when the mother's life is at risk -- that's just common sense. But excluding that obvious assumption, everything else in the abortion arena is "in play." There are many quagmires complicating this issue. Religion. Now it seems that religion is most often the backboard for every bank shot put up by someone making it their business to get into your business. Roman Catholic doctrine forbids abortion. Fine. Take that into consideration when you make your decision. Right-to-life proponents contend that abortion is immoral. Fine. Take that into consideration when you make your decision. Another pothole on the road to a sensible resolution to abortion is "when does life begin?" At conception? When a heartbeat is detected? At the first drawn breath? You know, for me it wasn't until last Tuesday. Until then I was just a sperm with an accountant! Okay, so those are the variables, and there are obviously millions more variables that make each individual case unique. But the more you think about it, and the more it makes your head spin, and the more confused you get trying to figure out someone else's life for them, it becomes increasingly apparent that it has to be the call of the individual who is pregnant, because the collective, one way or another, won't have to suffer the consequences of that most personal of all decisions.
My fellow Americans, it is time to suck it up. Look deep into your immortal soul (if you believe you have one) and do the right thing. Have the courage and strength to live your own life, by your own standards, and stop trying to call the shots for everyone else. We all live with glaring inconsistencies, and sometimes, when you see something going on right in front of you that offends you to the very core of your being, sometimes the best thing you can do is walk away, because you know that's exactly what you would want them to do for you. There's only one judge on all this and that's God. And you don't get to meet him until you go backstage after the play is over. And believe me, you do not want to get a "thumbs down" from the guy who created thumbs, all right? In the interim, everybody has got to tend their own garden vis-a-vis abortion. And remember, when it comes to your body, only you wear the robes, and only you carry the gavel.
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
http://www.ru486.com/topics/articles/article_70.asp
How IUDs Work IUDs usually prevent fertilization of the egg. Scientists are not entirely sure why. IUDs seem to affect the way the sperm or egg moves. It may be that substances released by the IUD immobilize sperm. Another possibility is that the IUD prompts the egg to move through the fallopian tube too fast to be fertilized. The copper in the ParaGard adds to the effectiveness of the IUD in two other ways. It affects the behavior of enzymes in the lining of the uterus to prevent implantation. It also causes the production of increased amounts of prostaglandin's those affect the hormones that support pregnancy. The progestin in the Progestasert also thickens cervical mucus, providing a barrier that prevents sperm from entering the uterus. It also affects the lining of the uterus in ways that would prevent implantation if an egg were fertilized, which is very unlikely.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/bc/IUD.HTML
You are right that Progesterone is not a spermicide(my mistake) however as you said it does effect the mobilization and prevents it entering the uterus(which prevent conception). The copper does have some effect as a spermicide but to what extent it is not clear. Both devices effect the movement of the egg and the sperm causing conception to be very unlikely, though not impossible admittily. It is not a perfect device, but it is one of the most effect birth control options out there.
Indeed they are. And if you can not recognize "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" when it is being denied, then it is very sad.
That's your moral judgement as to what is a legal 'life'. A fertilized egg, and an embryo are not, - up until the 2nd trimester. This the constitutional view. [to date]
Life is first on the list, ya know. The right to life.
As I said take it up with the court, and get out of my face.
And when the Court issues its Brown to its previous Plessy, you will abide by it? You won't complain?
Depends. If the court supports gun control, you can bet I will.
The Courts should get out of the situation and let the legislatures, the peoples' representatives take care of it.
They have 'gotten out', after the 2nd trimester. You want them back 'in', to control the morals of your peers.
That necessarily involves people "in each others faces." That's politics.
Politics & moral issues don't mix well, imo.
Well, Dennis, if you want to say it is none of your business that more than a million babies a year are being slaughtered, that tells me quite a bit more about you than you might have thought it would.
Care to explain this in more detail? How do you decide what is and isn't a "moral issue"?
Sounds like you're quite pro-gun ownership. In what way is gun ownership not a "moral issue" whereas abortion is?
Obviously, if someone doesn't believe in God, they don't believe in the concept of the soul.
Depends. If the court supports gun control, you can bet I will.
The Courts should get out of the situation and let the legislatures, the peoples' representatives take care of it.
They have 'gotten out', after the 2nd trimester. You want them back 'in', to control the morals of your peers.
That necessarily involves people "in each others faces." That's politics.
Politics & moral issues don't mix well, imo.
203 tpaine
Care to explain this in more detail? How do you decide what is and isn't a "moral issue"? Sounds like you're quite pro-gun ownership. In what way is gun ownership not a "moral issue" whereas abortion is? -WS-
We have a self evident right to self defense, thus to possess arms to secure that right. - This is a fact of life, imo.
Women have a self evident right to control their own bodies, thus to terminate a pregnancy to secure that right; - to a point. -- This is a fact of life, imo.
The exact point at which the embryos life, and rights, should be protected by the state is a 'moral' question, imo, which the USSC has wisely left up to state law & the people, - with the arbitrary setting of this moral point at the 2nd trimester.
We recognise the 'right to life' of a potential person, imo, -- not that of a fertilized egg/embryo, still inseperable from the life of its mother.
Seeing the baby in the womb and having pictures of it to take home, has changed lots of pro-abortion minds, including Susan Faludi, former arch-feminist, now pro-life.
If you believe in God and the "soul", when would you say a baby is given a soul? When were you assigned yours? Does a baby "concieved" by a lab technician not have a soul? If it does, at what point is the soul present? Is it when the "spark of life" begins?
At which time, Jesus will sort it all out, and set the record straight. If I were Dennis, I wouldn't wait until then to figure out which opinion is the right one.
I'm looking forward to the day when ultrasound images are high resolution and in color.
So then the truth lies in between those who kill the unborn and those who are pained by killing the unborn. What the hell kind of truth is that?
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