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Grijalva invites Ashcroft to see vigilante 'justice'
Arizona Daily Star ^ | 14 Jan 2003 | Unkown

Posted on 01/14/2003 8:01:56 AM PST by JackelopeBreeder

Grijalva invites Ashcroft to see vigilante 'justice'

ARIZONA DAILY STAR; Tuesday, January 14, 2003

U.S. Rep. Raul Grijalva stepped up his campaign to crack down on vigilantes Monday by inviting Attorney General John Ashcroft to come to Southern Arizona to see the threat they pose to border security.

The Tucson Democrat told Ashcroft in a letter that the federal government's silence on the issue is "seen as giving official sanction to this racist movement, both by the perpetrators and victims of vigilante 'justice.' "

Ashcroft's voice, Grijalva added, "is needed now to make clear that private armed groups claiming law enforcement powers have no role in patrolling our border with Mexico."

Last week, shortly after he was sworn in, Grijalva called for a federal inquiry into the vigilante groups that have formed in response to the thousands of illegal immigrants who make their way across Arizona's border every year.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: arizonaborder; illegalimmigration; vigilantes
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To: BlackElk
In your opinion, is the United States "ready for democracy" under our republican form of government? If so, what is your problem with officeholders being responsive to the voting public?

They are not being responsive to the voting public - a majority favors at least some effort to bring illegal immigration under control. And for all your blathering to the contrary, it was duly elected representatives who drafted the current laws that are not being enforced. But both the Dems and the GOP like illegal aliens - the Dems see them as future voters, and many business supporters of the GOP (and to a lesser extent, the Dems) see illegal labor as a cheap labor pool. So the laws are subverted to seek political gain, against the existing laws and the will of a majority of American voters.

561 posted on 01/22/2003 7:54:16 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: BlackElk
This is not a cause for sweating just a cause for vigilance with an eye towards prosecuting anyone usurping government functions in such a way as to violate statutory law or the established Constitutional due process rights of those persons who are not yet coitizens whom you wish to persecute.

You still have yet to demonstrate how the border groups are a violation of due process, as they almost exclusively simply report crossings of illegal aliens across private property to the Border Patrol, something little different than your average Neighborhood Watch. And you have a lot of gall even mentioning the 2nd Amendment, as you have tried to slime their legal carrying of firearms. I've seem some disgusting displays of hypocrisy on FR, but yours definitely makes my top 10 list for such.

562 posted on 01/22/2003 7:56:28 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: MissAmericanPie
Both "persons" and "citizens" are mentioned in the relevant constitional provisions. Naturally, citizens have more extensive rights but it is quite clear that those who are merely "persons" have rights as well, substantial rights, including a right to due process. Your argument is with the authors of the 5th and 14th Amendments and not with me.
563 posted on 01/22/2003 8:34:19 PM PST by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey)
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To: dirtboy
So the politicians of both parties are trying to lose their next election. I see McCain at the Hutchison conformation hearing is on your side. Congratulations?????
564 posted on 01/22/2003 8:36:23 PM PST by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey)
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To: dirtboy
1. Given the nature of your postings, you are operating under some delusion or power trip that I owe you answers. This is a second cousin to the delusion and power trip that the "illegals" owe you personally any answers.

2. I thought you said that they were merely reporting burglaries in progress not mere trespasses on private property. Was that what those four guys were doing who got arrested by the actual government in the previous post by FITZ?

3. I am very favorable to the strict right of every American under the 2nd Amendment to keep and bear arms, including firearms. I do not favor the use of firearms in the commission of crimes by anyone whether they are drug dealers, bank robbers or violators of the racketeeering statutes or civil rights statutes of the post-Civil War era known as the Ku Klux Klan Acts. OTOH, in what specific post did I say that any of them ought not have the RTKBA?

4. Disgust is in the eye of the beholder. Apparently it disgusts you that people disagree with you. Too bad.

565 posted on 01/22/2003 8:45:18 PM PST by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey)
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To: BlackElk
Illegal aliens are invaders, invaders do not have the right to "due process", they have the right to be repelled. That's what you do with invaders, repel them.

A legal guest or immigrant is entitled to "due process", invaders are entitled to be shown the exit, period. That is the spirit and intent of the Constitution, else why have an army to repel invaders? Lawyers are the ones that like to play with the meaning, especially immgration attorneys.
566 posted on 01/22/2003 8:54:13 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: BlackElk
1. Given the nature of your postings, you are operating under some delusion or power trip that I owe you answers. This is a second cousin to the delusion and power trip that the "illegals" owe you personally any answers.

So, in other words, once again you have no intention of supporting your contentions here. Your righteous indignation routine is getting rather stale, you really need to come up with some fresh, er, material. Check your local cow pasture, in this cold you can readily spot the fresh ones.

2. I thought you said that they were merely reporting burglaries in progress not mere trespasses on private property.

Once again, you demonstrate that your reading comprehension is even worse than your logic, if such a thing is possible.

Was that what those four guys were doing who got arrested by the actual government in the previous post by FITZ?

For some reason, you think we won't bother following a link. Here's the opening paragraph of that article:

LAS CRUCES -- Two New Mexico State University students and two El Paso men already facing charges for impersonating law enforcement officers were indicted by a grand jury Thursday on additional charges.

So please explain to me how the four men in question have ANYTHING in common with the border groups. But I doubt you will, because you have displayed a noticeable tendency to raise an issue and then indignantly whine when we ask you to explain the relevance of said issue.

3. I am very favorable to the strict right of every American under the 2nd Amendment to keep and bear arms, including firearms. I do not favor the use of firearms in the commission of crimes by anyone whether they are drug dealers, bank robbers or violators of the racketeeering statutes or civil rights statutes of the post-Civil War era known as the Ku Klux Klan Acts. OTOH, in what specific post did I say that any of them ought not have the RTKBA?

By implying that the border groups, because they are carrying arms for self-protection, are somehow therefore engaging in wrongdoing. You're more than willing to trash the legal right to carry arms when it suits your purpose, which means your support of the 2nd A is paper-thin.

4. Disgust is in the eye of the beholder. Apparently it disgusts you that people disagree with you. Too bad.

I have no problem with disagreement. I initially disagreed with many of the posters on this thread with whom I am now in agreement. Honest debates over disagreement are the best part of this forum. What truly disgusts me is a lying, sniveling weasel who uses just about all of the standard liberal propaganda techniques to slime those HE disagrees with. Look in the mirror, jack, to see the focus of my scorn.

567 posted on 01/23/2003 7:22:02 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: BlackElk
So the politicians of both parties are trying to lose their next election.

Nah, they just find it easier to give lip service to the Constitution and the law, and then simply not act on either once the election is over. I find it truly ironic that you lambaste Roe v. Wade, the ultimate expression of disregard of the Constitution, but have no problem with the government abdicating its clear Constitutional responsibilities to regulate the borders and immigration. The laws for such are in place, are within the proper realm of powers granted to the federal government, but they are ignored while the government instead regulates the amount of water your toilet flushes. But to you, I'm the whackjob. However, coming from a lyin' propagandist weasel like you, I'll take that as an indication that I'm on the right track.

568 posted on 01/23/2003 7:26:04 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: MissAmericanPie
Show me the words in the constitution that back up your fantasy or continue posting in the knowledge that you are not telling the truth. Article, Section and specific quotation, please.
569 posted on 01/23/2003 9:31:16 AM PST by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey)
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To: dirtboy
As even you probably understand, the fact that this is the last response you get does not mean that I agree in the slightest degree to indulge your fantasy of constitutional or factual competence. So go up to the top of the mountain out there in the desert, crank the volume of your voice to the nth degree, bray in the wind! You are not worthy of response.
570 posted on 01/23/2003 9:35:44 AM PST by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey)
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To: BlackElk
As even you probably understand, the fact that this is the last response you get does not mean that I agree in the slightest degree to indulge your fantasy of constitutional or factual competence. So go up to the top of the mountain out there in the desert, crank the volume of your voice to the nth degree, bray in the wind! You are not worthy of response.

You are just too funny. You've managed to enter the realm of self-parody with your non-response responses.

571 posted on 01/23/2003 9:38:52 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: BlackElk
Show me the words in the constitution that back up your fantasy or continue posting in the knowledge that you are not telling the truth. Article, Section and specific quotation, please.

So you demand that others back up their claims, but you refuse to back up your own? Hilarious.

572 posted on 01/23/2003 9:42:29 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
Was I talking to you? This will be the last time I recognize your impertinent existence when you respond to messages not sent to you.
573 posted on 01/23/2003 10:51:57 AM PST by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey)
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To: dirtboy
Was I talking to you? This will be the last time I recognize your impertinent existence when you respond to messages not sent to you. Unless I change my mind for my own reasons. You have had plenty of answers but enjoy pretending otherwise. When you learn the English language, please let me know.
574 posted on 01/23/2003 10:53:30 AM PST by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey)
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To: BlackElk
This will be the last time I recognize your impertinent existence when you respond to messages not sent to you.

Oh imperious blowhard, we must obey your every edict. The FR guidelines say nothing about responding to replies to others on a thread, but YOU set the rules here, not JimRob.

You have had plenty of answers but enjoy pretending otherwise.

The only person you've managed to fool on this thread is yourself.

575 posted on 01/23/2003 11:42:57 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: BlackElk
You think lawyers are good at word smithing? Take a step back from the fire.

Preamble:

We the people of the United States of America, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general walfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our prosterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That declaration seals the United States as a sovereign country with sovereign borders, and a sovereign populace. Justice is not established when the working citizen is made a slave of the welfare state, and a slave to the well being of illegal invaders. The people is clearly defined as being legal citizens, or invited guests of the United States, not "people" outside of our borders. And the blessings of liberty are at risk when people of different cultures with marxist backgrounds invade unhindered.

Article 1
Section 8
Number 15:To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

Websters Dictionary definition of invasion: to enter forcibly, as to conquer. 2. to crowd into, throng. 3. to intrude upon; violate. 4. To spread through with harmful effects.

Invaders are not covered under "people" or "person" under the Constitution. Only the most insane, activist, liberal, socialist, justice, and those with criminal intent against the tranquilty of the citizens of the United States would interpret it differently. That, my dear, is how a conservative interprets the Constitution. And it is my hope that soon we will have an activist conservative Supreme Court. tadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

576 posted on 01/23/2003 4:19:50 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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