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The writer of this article comes from a center-left perspective (by his recommendations of one-gun-a-month laws and ballistic fingerprinting), but the statistics in the first part of the article are telling. Gun control doesn't work (as a proud gun owner and supporter of Vermont-style concealed carry, I concur). I think the left is starting to understand this, a little (Legal Affairs is a publication affiliated with Yale Law School). But we'll see...
1 posted on 01/13/2003 10:19:00 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: bang_list
PING
2 posted on 01/13/2003 10:19:28 AM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: HumanaeVitae
"Guns play a large role in homicides, but they also play a large role in American life more generally. There are 250 million firearms in private hands in the United States, and the arsenal is growing by about 4.5 million new firearms each year."

That's right. Those who would take away the 2nd Amendment Right to Keep and Bear Arms would do well to remember that fact!

4 posted on 01/13/2003 10:24:28 AM PST by Destructor
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To: HumanaeVitae
All gun laws are unconstitutional and should be abolished.
5 posted on 01/13/2003 10:27:14 AM PST by Republican_Strategist
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To: HumanaeVitae
Center-left? Much further left, IMO. Consider the following:

...American social landscape--with its vast income inequalities, legacy of racial oppression, and enduring frontier mentality—responsible for the conditions in which violence thrives...

Bullsh*t! A vast majority of murders are committed over DRUGS and have absolutely NOTHING to do with income, race (except that blacks tend to commit the most murders, especially against other blacks), or a "frontier mentality" (in Detroit and East L.A.?)

7 posted on 01/13/2003 10:29:02 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants.-T.J.)
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To: HumanaeVitae
What's the purpose of requiring non-FFLs to put their customers through a background check at a gun show, but nowhere else?

To destroy gun shows. The bill not only requres PRIVATE CITIZENS to obtain a background check on potential buyers in a PRIVATE TRANSACTION, but attempts to force a 3 day waiting period to purchase ANY gun.

9 posted on 01/13/2003 10:32:30 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants.-T.J.)
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To: HumanaeVitae
And yet more ant-gun drivel.

The foremost goal of gun licensing is prevention—keeping guns out of the wrong hands —rather than punishment.

Again, BULLSH*T! The foremost goal of gun licensing is universal REGISTRATION so they know exactly where the guns are when the decide to round them up.

10 posted on 01/13/2003 10:35:20 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants.-T.J.)
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To: HumanaeVitae
What is the problem for which gun control is the solution?

There's the issue, all wrapped up neat and tidy right at the beginning.

Most sincere people who would tend to support gun control do so out of a belief that the risk, and prevelence, of violent crime would decrease. This has been dispositively shown not to be the case.

Most folks who support gun rights do so out of a fundamental belief that private ownership of arms is a fundamental human right. They'll stoop to utilitarian arguments if needed to convince the fence-sitters, but would sooner jump off a bridge than surrender their arms, or ask their neighbors to surrender theirs.

In the first case, you meet a luke-warm and emotional desire to 'do good' in the abstract. In the second, you meet reason and logic, but also an adamantine and personal determination to maintain one's personal safety, rights and freedom.

THAT's why the issue is so important and so divisive.

13 posted on 01/13/2003 10:44:23 AM PST by absalom01 (Blog On!)
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To: HumanaeVitae
Medical mistakes kill 90,000+ a year? Trival. No prob. We're not worried about numbers like that. Send us $ $ $ $, that's what we care about.
16 posted on 01/13/2003 10:49:04 AM PST by Waco
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To: HumanaeVitae
There are no interest groups that oppose tough treatment for gun offenders.

BS. Obviously there are very strong interest groups opposing tough treatment, as evidenced by the revolving door prisons where violent offenders are routinely sent for brief, taxpayer-funded weight-training and networking sojourns.

18 posted on 01/13/2003 10:59:42 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: HumanaeVitae
"Ballistics fingerprinting—requiring manufacturers to test-fire new guns and supply the government with samples of the bullets and shell casings—is worth trying because the implementation and enforcement costs are low."

This is just wrong. An article I read recently here on FP said that just in California, based on 1 years gun sales, it would take 1 ballistics scanner nine years working 24 hours a day 7 days a week to process that ones years sales. And the machines cost $600,000 each. This doesn't include several hundred thousand a year for operator salaries.

Then multiply this by nine if you want to keep up. And then probably multiply it by a 100 if you want to make any headway on the millions of guns already in the hands of owners.

Then multiply this by 50 for all the other states.

Oh, yeah. This won't cost much.
19 posted on 01/13/2003 11:09:36 AM PST by chaosagent
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To: HumanaeVitae
Interesting article. This sentence is no longer correct however:

A savvy criminal can defeat a tracing system by filing down the serial number

There are now techniques that are able to reveal a serial number even after it's been completely machined off (the stamping of the serial number causes some sort of stress on the underlying metal in the shape of the numbers. This "ghost" image can be brought ought even after physcal defacement of the serial number).

21 posted on 01/13/2003 11:11:45 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: HumanaeVitae
"Gun control advocates should also try to repeal the so-called "shall issue" laws. These state laws grant permits allowing practically any citizen without a criminal record to carry a concealed weapon in public. If anyone can legally carry a firearm, the police have no probable cause to stop a person they believe is armed."

The courts won't let the police stop a person because they "believe" he might be armed. Its called reasonable cause. This dweeb points out the fatal flaw in the gun control argument. Namely that we'll impose sanctions on all law abiding citizens in order to stop the law breakers. The law abiding don't need to be stopped and the law breakers won't be stopped.

22 posted on 01/13/2003 11:19:06 AM PST by mushroom
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To: HumanaeVitae
"There is good reason to think of the gun problem more narrowly as a handgun problem."

Noooooooo!!!!!
24 posted on 01/13/2003 11:49:42 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed
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To: HumanaeVitae
Article started out fine, but ended with the same old crap - licensing, registration, one-gun-a-month, etc. We have all that in Cali and it's done nothing to reduce homicides.
25 posted on 01/13/2003 12:46:00 PM PST by jrp
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To: HumanaeVitae
If the law doesn't require background checks at gun shows, then criminals know that it's at gun shows where they should get their guns.

The author is speaking from theory here, not from data. The latest Justice Department figures indicate that less than 2% of crimes are committed by guns purchased from gun shows. Maybe criminals should (in his opinion) get their guns at guns shows, but they don't. One reason is probably that a whole lot of cops hang out at gun shows too.

But this is excellent: What is the problem for which gun control is the solution?

The problem has little to do with guns directly. The problem is that a number of people who depend on government regulation to mold society in ways congenial to their politics feel that they are insufficiently able to regulate this area, or more properly, this demographic. They view gun owners as "unregulated," and hence lawless. Neither is true.

28 posted on 01/13/2003 2:46:52 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: HumanaeVitae
Crime and homocide occur in different rates, depending on where you are. States like North Dakota and Vermont, have high gun owning populations, but no crime. Washington DC, has stricter gun control than Canada, but yet has the highest crime and murder rate.

No national gun laws should ever be made, since no national gun law can be applied differently in North Dakota and Washington DC.

According to U.S. Department of Justice · Office of Justice Programs Bureau of Justice Statistics:

most homocides( 51.5%) and most felony murders (59.2%) are committed by blacks, which are only 12% of the population living on 3% of the land area. The murder rate for most of America, 87% of it, is comparable to most other developed countries.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

States like North Dakota, which have a homocide rate of 0.6% does not need more gun control. The state of North Dakota has a lower homocide rate than any other "country" in the world. There are vast areas of America which are realatively crime free, and no one should tamper with changing things.

Any government action to reduce homocides, should be addressed and applied to only those areas where the homocides are: like in Washington DC,

and leave the rest of the country alone.

29 posted on 01/13/2003 3:09:13 PM PST by waterstraat
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To: HumanaeVitae
What is the problem for which gun control is the solution?

LIBERTY! Just ask General Gage, (former) military governor of Boston. Of course, things didn't work out quite as he had planned ....

Gun control isn't about guns, its about control. Thanks to some less than bright anti-gun politicians in NYC, MD and CA, gunowners in this country are aware that registration is a stalking horse for the true anti-gun agenda, one that is the same here as in England and Australia - confiscation.

Canada, a country with no history of violent revolution, is experiencing massive civil disobedience in its attempt to register guns. Even the normally docile Canadians are highly suspicious of their government - and rightly so. I wonder what will happen here when (not if - it will happen) some sort of a registration scheme is implemented? Massive civil disobedience will probably be the least of the problems, IMHO. And that, unlike so much of what has happened in this country for the last couple of generations, would make the Founding Fathers proud.

31 posted on 01/14/2003 9:17:29 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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