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To: MattinNJ; weikel; Jeff Head
Your opinions please on this subject.
269 posted on 01/13/2003 6:36:04 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: Sparta
Im with you but don't feel like argueing with the brick walls on the other side of the debate. There are more enjoyable ways to procrastinate from engineering homework.
270 posted on 01/13/2003 6:50:21 PM PST by weikel
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To: Sparta
My opinion?

.... someone's got a lot of people focusing more on labels and individual interpretation of those labels when we should be focusing on being Americans dedicated to the Constitution.

In that regard, we should follow the advise of those who created this nation and the constitution regarding what those things mean:

"On every question of construction, let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." Thomas Jefferson, 1823

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." John Adams, Oct. 11, 1798

"A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy.... While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.... If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security." Samuel Adams

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles." Patrick Henry

"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them" George Mason, 1788

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..." Samuel Adams, 1788

In my estimation, anyone who loves this country and what it stands for will naturally focus on those things, because that is what the individuals who were inspired to form this nation used to make it what it is. We will not succeed unless we use the same formula.
285 posted on 01/13/2003 10:29:14 PM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Sparta
LOL-You couldn't resist stirring the pot this morning, could you?

IMHO, libertarians are right in theory but the best form of government that exists in practice are the ones advocated by conservatives.

I believe Drew Carey summed up the libertarian point of view perfectly when he said (and I paraphrase) "Hey buddy, I don't care if you drop dead from smoking crack as long as I don't have to pay for it."

I agree with him in principle. I could not care less what someone else does. It's their business-I only grow concerned when the government reaches their hands into my pockets and takes food off my family's table or if my loved ones are endangered. Most crackheads can barely stand up and pose no risk. The problem is that you can't have streets full of crackheads like we had in NYC before Guiliani took over. One year later 99% of them were gone and NYC truly became a great place to work and play.

293 posted on 01/14/2003 7:00:02 AM PST by MattinNJ
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