AZ Alert: Lawmaker: Aid to Mexican States is Cheaper Than Border Security

Santa Fe New Mexican ^ | 01/10/2003 | Associated Press

[hsmomx3]

TUCSON, Ariz. - Economic aid targeted to 50 regions in just six Mexican states could cut illegal immigration to the United States in half, a Mexican congressman said Thursday.

Eduardo Arnal Palomera, one of four lawmakers from Mexico on a three-day trip to Tucson to meet with local, state, federal and Indian officials, said American contribution toward Mexico's economic development would be mutually beneficial in helping solve his country's illegal immigration.

Lack of jobs and economic desperation is what drives hundreds of thousands of Mexicans to cross the border illegally every year seeking jobs here, according to Arnal Palomera.

He said the situation is most difficult in the states of Oaxaca, Zacatecas, Puebla, Guanajuato, Guerrero and Chiapas.

"It's cheapest for the United States to help Mexico to grow" by stimulating jobs and industry there than to continue to pay for "security, helicopters, Border Patrol, fences, walls," Arnal Palomera said.

He said he planned to deliver the same message during a scheduled meeting Friday with southern Arizona Reps. Jim Kolbe and Raul Grijalva.

The delegation met with Gov. Janet Napolitano for nearly a half-hour behind closed doors to discuss illegal immigration-related issues, including efforts of private groups patrolling the Arizona border.

Congressman Tarcisio Navarrette Montes de Oca, who headed the delegation, said the group proposed creating a binational working group of state, local and federal officials "to study, analyze and propose an urgent solution" to soaring deaths of Mexican migrants trying to cross the Arizona desert.

A record 145 illegal immigrants died during the past fiscal year, including 83 of heat exposure.

Arnal Palomera said he and his colleagues were concerned that ranchers and groups organizing patrols along the Arizona border have weapons and could cause a confrontation with illegal immigrants leading to violence.

Navarrette Montes said he hopes "to find a win-win solution for both countries and promote protection for human rights and we are open to promote commercial and economic exchange."

The group also met with Tucson Mayor Bob Walkup and the Tucson-Mexico Trade Office to develop new ways for improving trade activities - including improved rail connections.

©Santa Fe New Mexican 2003

[Ben Ficklin]

"illegal aliens represent 25% of the US prison population"

Do you have any stats for that?

[discostu]

Why do you insist on putting words in people's mouths. Show me where I said we shouldn't capture and deport illegal aliens! I didn't. As a matter of fact I said we should. All this started when you said the answer was to capture and deport ALL the illegals, and seal the borders, which I said was not possible. Now you're agreeing, which means you aknowledge that your "solution" wouldn't work and other methods must be considered. Done deal.

When I said you can tell the American people don't give a crap by how many go to the polls I wasn't referring to any one issue. The American people simply, across the board, on any and all issues, don't care. You roll up all the issues that were discussed even momentarily during the election and a whopping 15 million people care enough about at least one of them to take the 10 minutes necessary to vote. That's it, that's everybody that cares, you're not gonna gets hundreds of million into anything, Americans just don't care enough. Which is why all the doomcriers are always wrong, they never factor in the almighty couch, gravity well of the American psyche.

[discostu]

Based on previous history of mass immigration into America. People will flee a country as long as they feel they can't feed they're family. Once the conditions in their home country get to the point that they feel there's the possibility of financial security the mass egress ends.

The problem with aid we give is we don't supervise it. We just shovel in the money. Always wrong. The money should be supervised.

[discostu]

Actually we can't. Not possible, too many illegals, too long a border. Can't be done. While things certainly can be improved, and I'll agree there's a definite lack of will in the government that's keeping the problem at the level it is, total deportation and absolute border security can NEVER be accomplished, not even in Bizarro World.

[txdoda]

"It's amazing how few people on this thread can read."

Looks like almost everyone read the article just fine....

While US citizens are struggling to pay their OWN bills &
taxes (for freebies for illegals), now another overpaid
mexican politician wants DC to create more jobs in mexico,
and send more TAXPAYER dollars south.

[discostu]

Golly that's the perfect solution, turn America into Boris' police state, screw all the freedoms we've gotten used to, we must get rid of the illegals. BTW boris, and I'm going to shout here because it's the dozenth time I've had to say it on this thread

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH

It amazes me how much you clowns make up your own idea to what somebody said and reply to that. Show me just ONCE, ONE SINGLE SENTENCE where I EVEN INTIMATED we should be giving welfare checks to ANYONE ON THE PLANET!! SHOW IT TO ME NOW! I didn't. Maybe you oughta SHOVE YOUR "vision" and actually read what a person writes.

History shows over and over that the single most effective way to stop emigration is to make a place worth staying in. That doesn't involve socialism, actually quite the opposite it's the socialist places that people flee. It involves the intelligent expenditure of resources to make someplace worth living in. Very simple, read a history book, rent a clue, and DO NOT reply to this if you're just going to make up your own MORONIC rewrite of it. Reply to what was written or SHOVE IT.

[discostu]

And which places "traditionally" employ illegals? The only way to know is to have a previous existing conviction, which is awfully nice for catching repeat offenders, but not so good for catching people the first time.

Nice start, needs more work.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Is there any doubt but that every penny sent to Mexico would go into to pockets of the corrupt politicians instead of to any needy?

None whatsoever. Just like any third world country it's like washing money down the drain. And we never hold these countries accountable. Better to keep the money here and spend it on all the unemployed.

[discostu]

I was thinking of guidance like how to build roads, how to enforce and respect private property rights, copyrights, and patents. Stuff that helps business. All that crappy stuff you mentioned is all the product of socialism run rampant in America, Mexico knows ALL about that, as a matter of fact they can proably teach us a few things about it if we really want to learn.

[discostu]

Better take a reading comprehension course. What I said, repeatedly enough to show that your misinterpretation is deliberate especially since you quoted it, was:
can't round them ALL up

notice the important word "all", indicating the totality of the group being discussed.

Ah and then comes the accusations, yes Dr you've caught me, I'm a coyote and I make my fortune sneaking Mexicans across the border, the thing I fear most in this world is that we might do anything that stems the type so I spend my free time on FR supporting bad ideas to control immigration I know won't work. I also secretly work for Microsoft, the RIAA and a certain Indian software company that sneaks in programmer/ sex slave/ terrorists. Or so other incredibly stupid people on FR have accused me of.

Get real, learn to read.

[discostu]

Yeah the reading comprehension on this thread is fantastic. That's why EVERY SINGLE person on your side of the argument has mischaracterized what I've said with every single post.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Do you have any stats for that?

(sarcasm) You know how it goes - 'Document It', "prove it", 'well it happened there by what makes you think it happened elsewhere' 'just because you saw it' - and on and on.

LOL

[Ben Ficklin]

Does that mean no?

[Reaganwuzthebest]

You asking me or Dr Warmoose? Who cares about stats anyway? We know illegal aliens are in our prisons. If it's 1%, 2%, 10%, or 20%, what difference does it make, they are people who don't belong here and the government should have kept out.

[discostu]

Depends on what side of the equation you're looking at. IMHO it's better to fix Mexico so they stop leaving than it is to ruin America so they don't want to come. But you're right, either will work.

[Prerunner]

This is serveral years old.

First, is the magnitude of costs and numbers. California currently houses over 152,000 inmates within its
32 correctional institutions. Each of the 32 institutions house an average of approximately 4,500 inmates.
Of the 152,000 total inmate population, approximately 15 percent, or 20,000 are criminal aliens. At an
annual cost of $20,981 per inmate, this equates to a total cost of almost $420 million just for housing the
criminal alien population in prison. These 20,000 criminal alien inmates occupy the equivalent of five
overcrowded prisons whose construction costs to house our criminal alien population exceed $1.3 billion at
overcrowded levels.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/6030.htm

[madfly]

Here is where you can sign up for Selective Service online.

https://www4.sss.gov/regver/falseinfo.htm

Intentional submission of false information using this Federal Government Internet Web site, or purposefully submitting a registration for a man without his knowledge and consent, is illegal. Persons found guilty of knowingly submitting fraudulent registration information may be prosecuted and, upon conviction, may be subject to a fine of not more than $250,000 and/or imprisonment not to exceed five years.

At the link below, employers, Food Stamp caseworkers,Low Income Housing caseworkers, INS workers, Employment Agencies, Campus Admission Offices, Personell Offices, Dept. of Human Resources caseworkers, LEO's, Public Defenders, Prosecutors, Landlords, New Account clerks at Banks, Hospital admissions, Election Workers, DMV workers, Hiway Patrolman, can log on to VERIFY (see link below) the status of young males. Very simple.

Now if an alliance or coalition, like Arizonans for Immigration Reform, would recruit ROTC volunteers or Veterans of Foreign Wars, all retired Veteran Organizations, Baby Boomers, Grandparents, College Republican clubs, Conservative Clubs, to visit employers with a laptop computer, make appointments with Bank supervisors, Landlords etc.,inform them that they might be aiding and abeting a felon, leave a poster with the SS laws (English/Espanol) this could be an effective way to change the way folks do business, and could not be considered an anti-immigration plot, since the law applies to all draft age males of all colors, and all religions. I can't see why this would not be well received if it is presented as a "suspected terrorist hunt". You know, diversity and all.

I keep rolling this idea around in my head and I know this isn't a big solution, but I'm trying to see a way. Especially when I found this online verification page that makes it so easy for landlords and banks, etc. to type in a name and SS#. There must be some way to find support for this. I appreciate any comments. This might be something to take to the local Sheriff as B4Ranch suggests. We know that the people who are pushing this Agenda 21 crap are organized and meet all the time to come up with more and more complaints against our Constitution and laws and here we have a Federal Law that hasn't been scrapped yet and a lot of American Veterans who fought in Korea, WWII, Nam and Desert Storm who might be more than willing to knock on some big doors for their country. Jackelope Breeder says there are many retired military who live in Southern Arizona. But there are retired Vets in every town that now has a problem with illegals across the country. I need a list of all retired Military clubs, lodges, societies. These patriotic folks may not all be on the internet, but I'm betting they would give us an ear. Bush want's us all to be vigilant and do community service to fight terror. I think our generation can kick ass and take names and maybe weed out some terrorists by looking at the same age group of males that flew into the WTC. If the 911 terrorists had been in jail or deported for not registering with Selective Service, instead of being welcomed at flight schools, things might be different today. Although there's not a draft, I think it's time for real Americans to go on a draft-dodger hunt, cuz we CAN.

Thank you very much. :)

https://www4.sss.gov/regver/verification1.asp

This service allows you to look up a man's Selective Service number, as well as the date he registered. Enter a last name, Social Security Account number, and date of birth for the registered man, and click on "Submit."

Only registrations of men born on or after January 1, 1960, can be verified through this system. To obtain Selective Service information about men born earlier, CLICK HERE and follow the instructions on our "Records" page.

This service is operational 7 days a week. It is not available when system maintenance is scheduled from 2 a.m. to 4 a.m. U.S. Central Time Tuesday through Saturday.

Last Name:
Social Security Number:
Date of Birth:	(mmddyyyy)

Men who have registered remain eligible for Federal student aid, most Federal jobs, and Federal job training. Male non-citizens living in the U.S. who are 18 through 25 must register to remain eligible for citizenship.