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Jobless, and Stunned
New Marx Times ^ | 1/9/03 | Herbert

Posted on 01/09/2003 11:04:50 AM PST by pabianice

Left behind by the great Republican raid on the national Treasury are folks like Karelia Escobar and Joe Bergmann, middle-aged New Yorkers who have worked most of their lives but now find themselves traveling the anxious paths of the long-term unemployed.

With bills mounting and each day bringing a heightened sense of dread, they could use a little help. But the jobless are at the bottom of the economic heap, and the Bush administration's help seems always to go to the top.

Ms. Escobar is 43 and single, and lives in a small apartment in Queens. She has worked for a number of airlines over the past several years, most recently as a ticket agent for T.W.A. That job vanished with the World Trade Center.

"We were laid off Oct. 14, 2001," she said. "I haven't been able to find work since then. I've applied everywhere. I've gone back to school to improve my computer skills. I've learned another language. I feel very bad because I want to work so I can pay my bills. I've always worked. But now I can't find a job."

That plaintive comment is echoing from coast to coast. Unemployment is rising. And as the millions of jobless Americans (including many in the middle class) exhaust their benefits and run through their savings, they are finding themselves face to face with the horror of destitution.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS:
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We see once again that The Times is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Pelosi Democrats. I know no one who still reads it, though friends continue to send me the more egregious articles so we can share a laugh.

Also, notice how The Times assumes that anyone who actually has a job would never have any investments in the stock market. Otherwise, how could it wail about how those out of work would receive no benefits from not being taxed twice on investments?

This is real Workers' Daily World stuff. I'm surprised the Times hasn't started printing its paper in cyrillic.

1 posted on 01/09/2003 11:04:57 AM PST by pabianice
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To: pabianice
Their unemployment is at least in part due to the high levels of taxation on people and Corporations who have less money left over to make purchases, expand businesses and create jobs. As usual the ones who cause the mess seek to blame those who try to fix it.
2 posted on 01/09/2003 11:10:35 AM PST by plain talk
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To: pabianice
Left behind by the great Republican raid on the national Treasury

Yep, having taxpayers keep more of their own money is a raid on the national Treasury. /sarcasm.

A more appropriate opening would be "Having reduced the federal government raid on taxpayer's pockets"

real Workers' Daily World stuff. I'm surprised the Times hasn't started printing its paper in cyrillic.

Nah, Russia is much more capitalist than the NY Times nowadays.

3 posted on 01/09/2003 11:12:56 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: plain talk
"Their unemployment is at least in part due to the high levels of taxation on people and Corporations who have less money left over to make purchases, expand businesses and create jobs. As usual the ones who cause the mess seek to blame those who try to fix it."

Axiomatic statement of the year. Its truly sad that the dems haven't "GOT IT" yet even after all these years.

4 posted on 01/09/2003 11:15:45 AM PST by Windsong
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To: pabianice
bobherb@nytimes.com

E-mail this liar and tell him what you think of his obvious bias against the GOP and Bush.

He is demonizing with lies on purpose and many will believe this idiot.
5 posted on 01/09/2003 11:15:59 AM PST by ICE-FLYER (God bless and keep the United States of America)
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To: pabianice
The solution for Ms. Escobar is obvious. Get a teaching credential and a job in the NY public school system. The Democrats will make sure you're employed for life.
6 posted on 01/09/2003 11:21:14 AM PST by Argus
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To: pabianice
I hope Ms. Escobar finds a job soon. It's sad that she's going through rough times (which most of us have seen ourselves at one point or another) and being used in such a manner by this 'journalist'.
7 posted on 01/09/2003 11:34:32 AM PST by nolaw0ady (your mileage may vary.)
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To: pabianice
.


Man what a Biased article!

But that doesn't cloud that fact that there is a large segment of the society that is unemployed. I wish, like all FREEPERS do, to see this unemployment rate reduced. It is important to remember that, all DEMORAT lies aside, this is a problem that must be addressed and the problem reduced.

Fact. Most of those laid off are in the age group of 35 to 45.

Fact. Most are (were) degreed technical professionals.

Fact. Most are unable to find the kind of work that they have experience in.


Oh, they will get back to work. That can be assured. Whether it is fast food, or coal mining. But they will no longer be writing multi-million dollar proposals or designing automated machinery. This change in career venue will have a serious effect on the families involved.

This fact; that the opinions and views of those affected during this period of time will be altered cannot be under estimated. And, any change in opinion and values will affect a societial viewpoint. One that may or may not be in a Conservative relm. I am sure everyone will agreee, that this psychological change will affect the next election.


It is up to us, as a people, to assure that the effects of this downturn be turned into something beneficial for the conservative political effort, as well as for the individuals involved.


Conservatives should be the people who offer a hand up...and not a hand out. But we should also be the group of Compassion and understanding. We should not let the Liberal elite take this away from us. And harsh-worded FREEPERS should mind well that these people could be your family one day as well.


My point is simple. Acknowledge the fact that there is a serious market downturn and that certain critical positions are not available. (Check out the headhunter sites if you don't agree with me). And, be there with a Compassionate hand up to help our brothers who have fallen on hard times.



.

8 posted on 01/09/2003 11:43:29 AM PST by vannrox (The Preamble - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: vannrox
Maybe they ought to migrate to Mexico or China for a job - since we sent all of ours there.
9 posted on 01/09/2003 12:07:25 PM PST by Digger
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To: vannrox
There are resources out there, and I wonder how many of the jobless are utilizing them.

Just to list a few...

http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/index.htm
http://www.doleta.gov/jobseekers/
http://www.acinet.org/acinet/library.asp?category=1.3

Inexpensive online training
http://www.freeacademy.com/default.php
http://www.gcflearnfree.org/en/main/community.asp
http://homebizwomen.com/online-career-training.html

I'm not saying its easy, but I keep hearing how no one's getting interviews. I wonder what they're doing with all the time that they're on unemployment if they're not interviewing, and they're not working. If there aren't any jobs in your career area, then its time to either start your own business, or find a new career area.

I'm also surprised how many 35-45 year olds were up to their eyeballs in debt, despite making some phenomenal salaries a few years back. Did they really think it would last forever?

One good thing is the housing market is up. It sucks, but if you have to sell your house to live off the equity for awhile, at least its a good time to do it.

My condolences to anyone who is out of work, especially those with families. I hope you will all take advantage of the helping hands that are already being made available to you via unemployment, federal state and local government agencies, and other resources. I also hope you'll remember next election where jobs come from. (hint...its not the government)




10 posted on 01/09/2003 12:07:57 PM PST by babyface00
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To: babyface00
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Engineers


Significant Points

  • Overall job opportunities in engineering are expected to be good, but to vary by specialty.
  • A bachelor's degree is required for most entry-level jobs.
  • Starting salaries are significantly higher than those of college graduates in other fields.
  • Continuing education is critical to keep abreast of the latest technology.
Nature of the Work [About this section] Back to Top Back to Top

Engineers apply the theories and principles of science and mathematics to research and develop economical solutions to technical problems. Their work is the link between perceived social needs and commercial applications. Engineers design products, machinery to build those products, factories in which those products are made, and the systems that ensure the quality of the products and efficiency of the workforce and manufacturing process. Engineers design, plan, and supervise the construction of buildings, highways, and transit systems. They develop and implement improved ways to extract, process, and use raw materials, such as petroleum and natural gas. They develop new materials that both improve the performance of products and take advantage of advances in technology. They harness the power of the sun, the Earth, atoms, and electricity for use in supplying the Nation's power needs, and create millions of products using power. They analyze the impact of the products they develop or the systems they design on the environment and people using them. Engineering knowledge is applied to improving many things, including the quality of health care, the safety of food products, and the efficient operation of financial systems.

Engineers consider many factors when developing a new product. For example, in developing an industrial robot, engineers determine precisely what function the robot needs to perform; design and test the robot's components; fit the components together in an integrated plan; and evaluate the design's overall effectiveness, cost, reliability, and safety. This process applies to many different products, such as chemicals, computers, gas turbines, helicopters, and toys.

In addition to design and development, many engineers work in testing, production, or maintenance. These engineers supervise production in factories, determine the causes of breakdowns, and test manufactured products to maintain quality. They also estimate the time and cost to complete projects. Some move into engineering management or into sales. In sales, an engineering background enables them to discuss technical aspects and assist in product planning, installation, and use. (See the statements on engineering and natural sciences managers and sales engineers elsewhere in the Handbook.)

Most engineers specialize. More than 25 major specialties are recognized by professional societies, and the major branches have numerous subdivisions. Some examples include structural, environmental, and transportation engineering, which are subdivisions of civil engineering; and ceramic, metallurgical, and polymer engineering, which are subdivisions of materials engineering. Engineers also may specialize in one industry, such as motor vehicles, or in one field of technology, such as turbines or semiconductor materials.

This statement, which contains an overall discussion of engineering, is followed by separate statements on 14 engineering branches: aerospace; agricultural; biomedical; chemical; civil; computer hardware; electrical and electronics, except computer; environmental; industrial, including health and safety; materials; mechanical; mining and geological, including mining safety; nuclear; and petroleum engineering. (Computer software engineers are discussed elsewhere in the Handbook.) Some branches of engineering not covered in detail in the Handbook, but for which there are established college programs, include architectural engineering-the design of a building's internal support structure; and marine engineering-the design and installation of ship machinery and propulsion systems.

Engineers in each branch have a base of knowledge and training that can be applied in many fields. Electronics engineers, for example, work in the medical, computer, communications, and missile guidance fields. Because there are many separate problems to solve in a large engineering project, engineers in one field often work closely with specialists in other scientific, engineering, and business occupations.

Engineers use computers to produce and analyze designs; to simulate and test how a machine, structure, or system operates; and to generate specifications for parts. New communications technologies using computers are changing the way engineers work on designs. Engineers can collaborate on designs with other engineers around the country or even abroad, using the Internet or related communications systems. Many engineers also use computers to monitor product quality and control process efficiency. They spend a great deal of time writing reports and consulting with other engineers, as complex projects often require an interdisciplinary team of engineers. Supervisory engineers are responsible for major components or entire projects.

Working Conditions [About this section] Back to Top Back to Top

Most engineers work in office buildings, laboratories, or industrial plants. Others may spend time outdoors at construction sites, mines, and oil and gas exploration and production sites, where they monitor or direct operations or solve onsite problems. Some engineers travel extensively to plants or worksites.

Many engineers work a standard 40-hour week. At times, deadlines or design standards may bring extra pressure to a job. When this happens, engineers may work longer hours and experience considerable stress.

Employment [About this section] Back to Top Back to Top

In 2000, engineers held 1.5 million jobs. The following tabulation shows the distribution of employment by engineering specialty.

Specialty Employment Percent
Total, all engineers 1,465,000 100
Electrical and electronics 288,000 20
Civil 232,000 16
Mechanical 221,000 15
Industrial, including health and safety 198,000 14
Computer hardware 60,000 4
Environmental 52,000 4
Aerospace 50,000 3
Chemical 33,000 2
Materials 33,000 2
Nuclear 14,000 1
Petroleum 9,000 1
Biomedical 7,200 <1
Mining and geological, including mining safety 6,500 <1
Marine engineers and naval architects 5,100 <1
Agricultural 2,400 <1
All other engineers 253,000 17

Almost half of all wage and salary engineering jobs were found in manufacturing industries, such as transportation equipment, electrical and electronic equipment, industrial machinery, and instruments and related products. About 401,000 wage and salary jobs were in services industries, primarily in engineering and architectural services, research and testing services, and business services, where firms designed construction projects or did other engineering work on a contractual basis. Engineers also worked in the construction and transportation, communications and utilities industries.

Federal, State, and local governments employed about 179,000 engineers in 2000. Almost half of these were in the Federal Government, mainly in the Departments of Defense, Transportation, Agriculture, Interior, and Energy, and in the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Most engineers in State and local government agencies worked in highway and public works departments. In 2000, about 43,000 engineers were self-employed, many as consultants.

Engineers are employed in every State, in small and large cities, and in rural areas. Some branches of engineering are concentrated in particular industries and geographic areas, as discussed later in this chapter.

Training, Other Qualifications, and Advancement [About this section] Back to Top Back to Top

A bachelor's degree in engineering is required for almost all entry-level engineering jobs. College graduates with a degree in a physical science or mathematics occasionally may qualify for some engineering jobs, especially in specialties in high demand. Most engineering degrees are granted in electrical, electronics, mechanical, or civil engineering. However, engineers trained in one branch may work in related branches. For example, many aerospace engineers have training in mechanical engineering. This flexibility allows employers to meet staffing needs in new technologies and specialties in which engineers are in short supply. It also allows engineers to shift to fields with better employment prospects or to those that more closely match their interests.

Most engineering programs involve a concentration of study in an engineering specialty, along with courses in both mathematics and science. Most programs include a design course, sometimes accompanied by a computer or laboratory class or both.

In addition to the standard engineering degree, many colleges offer 2- or 4-year degree programs in engineering technology. These programs, which usually include various hands-on laboratory classes that focus on current issues, prepare students for practical design and production work, rather than for jobs which require more theoretical and scientific knowledge. Graduates of 4-year technology programs may get jobs similar to those obtained by graduates with a bachelor's degree in engineering. Engineering technology graduates, however, are not qualified to register as professional engineers under the same terms as graduates with degrees in engineering. Some employers regard technology program graduates as having skills between those of a technician and an engineer.

Graduate training is essential for engineering faculty positions and many research and development programs, but is not required for the majority of entry-level engineering jobs. Many engineers obtain graduate degrees in engineering or business administration to learn new technology and broaden their education. Many high-level executives in government and industry began their careers as engineers.

About 330 colleges and universities offer bachelor's degree programs in engineering that are accredited by the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET), and about 250 colleges offer accredited bachelor's degree programs in engineering technology. ABET accreditation is based on an examination of an engineering program's student achievement, program improvement, faculty, curricular content, facilities, and institutional commitment. Although most institutions offer programs in the major branches of engineering, only a few offer programs in the smaller specialties. Also, programs of the same title may vary in content. For example, some programs emphasize industrial practices, preparing students for a job in industry, whereas others are more theoretical and are designed to prepare students for graduate work. Therefore, students should investigate curricula and check accreditations carefully before selecting a college.

Admissions requirements for undergraduate engineering schools include a solid background in mathematics (algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and calculus) and sciences (biology, chemistry, and physics), and courses in English, social studies, humanities, and computers. Bachelor's degree programs in engineering typically are designed to last 4 years, but many students find that it takes between 4 and 5 years to complete their studies. In a typical 4-year college curriculum, the first 2 years are spent studying mathematics, basic sciences, introductory engineering, humanities, and social sciences. In the last 2 years, most courses are in engineering, usually with a concentration in one branch. For example, the last 2 years of an aerospace program might include courses in fluid mechanics, heat transfer, applied aerodynamics, analytical mechanics, flight vehicle design, trajectory dynamics, and aerospace propulsion systems. Some programs offer a general engineering curriculum; students then specialize in graduate school or on the job.

Some engineering schools and 2-year colleges have agreements whereby the 2-year college provides the initial engineering education, and the engineering school automatically admits students for their last 2 years. In addition, a few engineering schools have arrangements whereby a student spends 3 years in a liberal arts college studying pre-engineering subjects and 2 years in an engineering school studying core subjects, and then receives a bachelor's degree from each school. Some colleges and universities offer 5-year master's degree programs. Some 5- or even 6-year cooperative plans combine classroom study and practical work, permitting students to gain valuable experience and finance part of their education. All 50 States and the District of Columbia usually require licensure for engineers who offer their services directly to the public. Engineers who are licensed are called Professional Engineers (PE). This licensure generally requires a degree from an ABET-accredited engineering program, 4 years of relevant work experience, and successful completion of a State examination. Recent graduates can start the licensing process by taking the examination in two stages. The initial Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) examination can be taken upon graduation. Engineers who pass this examination commonly are called Engineers in Training (EIT) or Engineer Interns (EI). The EIT certification usually is valid for 10 years. After acquiring suitable work experience, EITs can take the second examination, the Principles and Practice of Engineering Exam. Several States have imposed mandatory continuing education requirements for relicensure. Most States recognize licensure from other States. Many civil, electrical, mechanical, and chemical engineers are licensed as PEs.

Engineers should be creative, inquisitive, analytical, and detail-oriented. They should be able to work as part of a team and to communicate well, both orally and in writing. Communication abilities are becoming more important because much of their work is becoming more diversified, meaning that engineers interact with specialists in a wide range of fields outside engineering.

Beginning engineering graduates usually work under the supervision of experienced engineers and, in large companies, also may receive formal classroom or seminar-type training. As new engineers gain knowledge and experience, they are assigned more difficult projects with greater independence to develop designs, solve problems, and make decisions. Engineers may advance to become technical specialists or to supervise a staff or team of engineers and technicians. Some may eventually become engineering managers or enter other managerial or sales jobs. (See the statements under management and business and financial operations occupations, and sales and related occupations elsewhere in the Handbook.)

Job Outlook [About this section] Back to Top Back to Top

Overall engineering employment is expected to increase more slowly than the average for all occupations. However, overall job opportunities in engineering are expected to be good through 2010 because the number of engineering degrees granted is not expected to increase significantly over the 2000-10 period. Projected employment growth and, thus, job opportunities vary by specialty, ranging from a decline in employment of mining and geological engineers to faster-than-average growth among environmental engineers. Competitive pressures and advancing technology will force companies to improve and update product designs and to optimize their manufacturing processes. Employers will rely on engineers to further increase productivity, as investment in plant and equipment increases to expand output of goods and services. New computer and communications systems have improved the design process, enabling engineers to produce and analyze various product designs much more rapidly than in the past and to collaborate on designs with other engineers throughout the world. Despite these widespread applications, computer technology is not expected to limit employment opportunities. Finally, additional engineers will be needed to improve or build new roads, bridges, water and pollution control systems, and other public facilities.

Many engineering jobs are related to developing technologies used in national defense. Because defense expenditures-particularly expenditures for aircraft, missiles, and other weapons systems-are not expected to return to previously high levels, job outlook may not be as favorable for engineers working in defense-related fields although defense expenditures are expected to increase.

The number of bachelor's degrees awarded in engineering began declining in 1987 and has continued to stay at about the same level through much of the 1990s. The total number of graduates from engineering programs is not expected to increase significantly over the projection period.

Although only a relatively small proportion of engineers leaves the profession each year, many job openings will arise from replacement needs. A greater proportion of replacement openings is created by engineers who transfer to management, sales, or other professional occupations than by those who leave the labor force.

Most industries are less likely to lay off engineers than other workers. Many engineers work on long-term research and development projects or in other activities that continue even during economic slowdowns. In industries such as electronics and aerospace, however, large cutbacks in defense expenditures and government research and development funds, as well as the trend toward contracting out engineering work to engineering services firms, have resulted in significant layoffs for engineers.

It is important for engineers, like those working in other technical occupations, to continue their education throughout their careers because much of their value to their employer depends on their knowledge of the latest technology. Although the pace of technological change varies by engineering specialty and industry, advances in technology have significantly affected every engineering discipline. Engineers in high-technology areas, such as advanced electronics or information technology, may find that technical knowledge can become obsolete rapidly. Even those who continue their education are vulnerable to layoffs if the particular technology or product in which they have specialized becomes obsolete. By keeping current in their field, engineers are able to deliver the best solutions and greatest value to their employers. Engineers who have not kept current in their field may find themselves passed over for promotions or vulnerable to layoffs, should they occur. On the other hand, it often is these high-technology areas that offer the greatest challenges, the most interesting work, and the highest salaries. Therefore, the choice of engineering specialty and employer involves an assessment not only of the potential rewards but also of the risk of technological obsolescence.

Related Occupations [About this section] Back to Top Back to Top

engineers apply the principles of physical science and mathematics in their work. Other workers who use scientific and mathematical principles include architects, except landscape and naval; engineering and natural sciences managers; computer and information systems managers; mathematicians; drafters; engineering technicians; sales engineers; science technicians; and physical and life scientists, including agricultural and food scientists, biological and medical scientists, conservation scientists and foresters, atmospheric scientists, chemists and materials scientists, environmental scientists and geoscientists, and physicists and astronomers.

Sources of Additional Information [About this section] Back to Top Back to Top

Disclaimer:

Links to non-BLS Internet sites are provided for your convenience and do not constitute an endorsement.

High school students interested in obtaining a full package of guidance materials and information (product number SP-01) on a variety of engineering disciplines should contact the Junior Engineering Technical Society by sending $3.50 to:

  • JETS-Guidance, 1420 King St., Suite 405, Alexandria, VA 22314-2794.
    Internet: http://www.jets.org

High school students interested in obtaining information on ABET-accredited engineering programs should contact:

  • The Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology, Inc., 111 Market Place, Suite 1050, Baltimore, MD 21202-4012.
    Internet: http://www.abet.org

Non-licensed engineers and college students interested in obtaining information on Professional Engineer licensure should contact:

  • The National Society of Professional Engineers, 1420 King St., Alexandria, VA 22314-2794.
    Internet: http://www.nspe.org
  • National Council of Examiners for Engineers and Surveying, P.O. Box 1686, Clemson, SC 29633-1686.
    Internet: http://www.ncees.org

Information on general engineering education and career resources is available from:

  • American Society for Engineering Education, 1818 N St. NW., Suite 600, Washington, DC 20036-2479.
    Internet: http://www.asee.org

Information on obtaining an engineering position with the Federal Government is available from the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) through a telephone-based system. Consult your telephone directory under U.S. Government for a local number or call (912) 757-3000; Federal Relay Service: (800) 877-8339. The first number is not tollfree, and charges may result. Information also is available from the OPM Internet site: http://www.usajobs.opm.gov.

Non-high school students and those wanting more detailed information should contact societies representing the individual branches of engineering. Each can provide information about careers in the particular branch. The individual statements that follow also provide other information in detail on aerospace; agricultural; biomedical; chemical; civil; computer hardware; electrical and electronics, except computer; environmental; industrial, including health and safety; materials; mechanical; mining and geological, including mining safety; nuclear; and petroleum engineering.

Selected industries employing engineers that appear in the 2002-03 Career Guide to Industries:



OOH ONET Codes [About this section] Back to Top Back to Top

17-2011.00, 17-2021.00, 17-2031.00, 17-2041.00, 17-2051.00, 17-2061.00, 17-2071.00, 17-2072.00, 17-2081.00, 17-2111.01, 17-2111.02, 17-2111.03, 17-2112.00, 17-2121.01, 17-2121.02, 17-2131.00, 17-2141.00, 17-2151.00, 17-2161.00, 17-2171.00, 17-2199.99

Suggested citation: Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Department of Labor, Occupational Outlook Handbook, 2002-03 Edition, Engineers, on the Internet at http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm (visited January 09, 2003).

 

Back to Top Back to Top www.dol.gov
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Office of Occupational Statistics and Employment Projections
Suite 2135
2 Massachusetts Avenue, NE
Washington, DC 20212-0001

URL: http://www.bls.gov/OCO/
Phone: (202) 691-5700
Fax: (202) 691-5745
Do you have a question about the Occupational Outlook Handbook?
Technical (web) questions: webmaster@bls.gov
Other comments: feedback@bls.gov

Occupational Outlook Handbook, 2002-03 Edition


11 posted on 01/09/2003 12:24:02 PM PST by vannrox (The Preamble - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: vannrox
But they will no longer be writing multi-million dollar proposals or designing automated machinery.

They could go to work for the dreaded Military Industrial Complex, if that is the Congress ever gets around to loosing the purse strings for new developement as well as upgrades. The less skilled should be put to work making bullets or packing beans (metaphorically speaking). Most of the increased spending has so far gone to operations, as that is the highest priority.

Other than military and a small amount of public works, such as dams, canals and interstate highways, the rest of it is not really a function of the federal, and in most cases state, governments. Lower taxes will strengthen the economy, just as they did under Reagan. But it will take some time.

12 posted on 01/09/2003 12:26:34 PM PST by El Gato
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soon-to-be-laid-off bump
13 posted on 01/09/2003 12:30:32 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
btt. nice work vanrox.
14 posted on 01/09/2003 12:39:58 PM PST by bribriagain
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To: pabianice
Well, if I'm reading the link correctly, this DID appear on the opinion page.

That doesn't absolve the Times, considering their long history of bias and liberal hacking but, at least they put the real stupidity in it's correct place.

Hell...the WSJ still prints Al Hunt's garbage.

15 posted on 01/09/2003 12:46:34 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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To: dirtboy
I believe that when you look at things like tax rates and regulatory burden, then some people might argue that both china and russia are more capitalist than america today.
16 posted on 01/09/2003 12:47:10 PM PST by Red Jones
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To: pabianice
Left behind by the great Republican raid on the national Treasury are folks like Karelia Escobar.....

Ms. Escobar...has worked for a number of airlines over the past several years, most recently as a ticket agent for T.W.A. That job vanished with the World Trade Center.


Yeah, the Republicans were responsible for that.
17 posted on 01/09/2003 12:48:32 PM PST by aruanan
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To: pabianice
As an aside, the NY Times has gone up to $1 for the regular local edition. Not sure why it's so costly now, since they seem to make up many of the stories themselves.
18 posted on 01/09/2003 12:54:55 PM PST by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: pabianice
"We were laid off Oct. 14, 2001," she said. "I haven't been able to find work since then. I've applied everywhere. I've gone back to school to improve my computer skills. I've learned another language. I feel very bad because I want to work so I can pay my bills. I've always worked. But now I can't find a job."

I was laid off from my job Nov. 8, 2002. I am starting a new job next week, at a comparable salary. I am an "older worker" in the "impossible for people of a certain age to find employment" IT field, and if I can find a job, how come others can't? What am I doing that others aren't? Other than actually looking for real work?

19 posted on 01/09/2003 12:58:23 PM PST by Alouette (Will Program Oracle for Food)
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In times of higher employment, they'd be whining about long work hours, inadequate benefits....

I am not saying being unemployed isn't a REAL problem, but these are people who are going to be discontented with the rosiest status quo.
20 posted on 01/09/2003 12:58:58 PM PST by ChemistCat
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