Commuter Plane Crash @ Charlotte NC Airport (BREAKING)

www.msnbc.com ^ | 8 Jan 03 | MSNBC

[TankerKC]

Breaking news. Charlotte to Greenville flight--19 on board. Crashed on takeoff into a US Airways hangar.

More to follow...

[agincourt1415]

They would probably be looking at the Props and the system that controls them. Then again Ice could be the cause, pilots have been know to takeoff with ice and get surprised. USAir Fokker on takeoff. Air Florida 737.

[TankerKC]

Pitch attitude versus angle of attack.

I just got back form the gym (working out and wathcing TV) and the folks on Fox were throwing around the term “angle of attack” without really knowing what it is. Even their “analyst”, Dr. Gross, seemed to be confused.

[MindBender26]

This A/C is a bitch in roll and yaw with one shut down! Slow, heavy, a fat, relatively close coupled A/C with all power on one wing, and no warning! VMC training and checkrides are one thing. First flight of the day with no warning is another.

Look at the suplemental rudders off the horizontal stab. it needs to meet stability guidelines!

Could have been a aft-loaded CG problem, but most probably a VMC problem.

[Mamzelle]

Heard on Fox that this Raytheon commuter plane is of a similar and related make to that King Air that Wellstone crashed in.

[MindBender26]

good pic

[Mamzelle]

The news keeps talking about how nice the weather is--and I don't know how much this would relate to AC ice, but it could well have been below freezing in the early hours before takeoff. It's chilly up here in the mtns.

[MindBender26]

Raytheon bought Beech few years ago.

[Mamzelle]

The "talking head" said that this craft is a larger version of the King Air that crashed, to be specific.

[TankerKC]

Another good link.

[Dead Dog]

The King Air is to buisness flying as a Ford F150 is to pickups. Even though they are derivitives, they are completely different machines.

I think the media is implying a link that really isn't there. Wellstone also died in what looked like pilot error (struck terrain while on an instrument approach), this looks like a mechanical failure.

[Bella]

FOX news saying the temp was 54 at takeoff time..icing was not a factor...Also said that witnesses heard bangs and crashes when the plane took off...they're checking records to see when this plane was last serviced.

[TinkersDam]

I think the fact that the plane was fully loaded may be significant for weight and balance aspects. The plane should have performed even if all seats were filled, it would probably not have had a full load of fuel particularly for such a short hop. But any stall immediately after takeoff is usually a weight and balance problem. If the airplane's center of gravity is too far aft of the allowed range, the forces on the plane's horizontal stabilizer will be inadequate to prevent the nose from continuing to climb until such a point at which the angle of attack is so high that lift is substantially impaired.

CVR should show sound of stall warning. I don't know if this plane has a stick shaker, I would doubt it.

Sure, other things could cause a stall, spin, inversion sequence: wake turbulence that was severe, even the pilot's seat sliding back suddenly as he is holding the yoke.

Icing is unlikely since no matter how much ice might have formed or wherever it formed, it would hardly cause such an immediate and catastrophic effect. Carburetor icing is largely a fallacy anyway, 99% of the time it doesn't exist!

Its obvious that the engines were developing sufficient power for the takeoff roll and rotation, but if anything happened to them (or worse, to ONE of them) the pilot should have been able to deal with it.

A low time, amateur pilot suddenly faced with loss of an engine on takeoff might react slowly or incorrectly, but under no circumstances would a professionally trained pilot be unable to deal with an engine out situation on a twin.

[nfldgirl]

Also, news station is reporting that a Clemson student was on that flight.

I went to Clemson and took this US Air flight many times. With the start of the new semester, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out there were a number of students on board.

Bob Jones University is also in Greenville, SC. Many students returning there as well.

[Bella]

Reporter saying this plane was mainly a business commuter flight..people on the plane are mostly from the Charlotte area..As far as knowing who was on the plane, they're saying that's still hours away.

[Howlin]

I saw a woman on from GSP airport who said that the same flight -- not sure if it was the same plane -- had trouble on landing yesterday, something about not being able to tell if it's landing gear was down.

[MindBender26]

"A low time, amateur pilot suddenly faced with loss of an engine on takeoff might react slowly or incorrectly, but under no circumstances would a professionally trained pilot be unable to deal with an engine out situation on a twin."

Sorry, wrong. Happens all the time. At least two Congressmen killed in that type accidents. Look at NTSB for large number thereof.

[Mamzelle]

Also Furmans, and even U SC Spartanburg and Columbia...

[Howlin]

Charlotte isn't really considered in the mountains of NC; it's 46 here in Raleigh now, and I see it's 54 in Charlotte; I'm not sure how low the temp was last night, but I doubt icing is the problem.

[TinkersDam]

Often eye-witness reports are the least useful in a crash investigation, but near an airport you tend to have aviation trained witnesses or atleast people familiar with normal flight patterns who would recall anything that was abnormal as to altitude or attitude.

Therefore the eye witness reports of a severe pitchup followed by a bank to the left and a roll to an inverted position would indicate to me a sever loss of control situation due to a horizontal stabilizer being ineffective. This would ofcourse require the overloading to be rather severe to have placed the center of gravity so far aft of the allowed range and its built-in safety margin.

[Mamzelle]

re: 54 degrees)))

OK--sometimes it's counterintuitive that what's hours north of me can be twenty degrees warmer.