Posted on 01/04/2003 1:25:16 AM PST by JohnHuang2
Just as the bodies of the three American missionaries slain by an Islamic terrorist in Yemen are laid to rest so, apparently, is the news coverage of the atrocity, complains Southern Baptist minister and WND columnist Rev. Jerry Falwell.
The three were killed Dec. 30 when a lone gunman burst into the Baptist hospital in Jibla cradling a rifle hidden inside his coat as if it were a baby. He opened fire, shooting 60-year-old William Koehn of Texas, 53-year-old Kathleen Gariety of Wisconsin and 57-year-old Dr. Martha Myers of Alabama, each in the head. A fourth missionary, 49-year-old Donald Caswell of Texas, was seriously wounded.
On Thursday, Yemen authorities arrested Islamic militants Abed Abdul Razak Kamel in connection with the missionaries' murder and Ali al-Jarallah in connection with last week's slaying of Jarallah Omar, deputy leader of Yemen's Socialist Party.
Security officials said the duo had plans to attack other foreigners, journalists and Yemeni political leaders and gave police a list of eight targets during their interrogation.
The missionaries are the latest Christians to be slain by Islamic militants around the world.
Falwell questions why the national media are ignoring these attacks.
"If a massacre were being conducted against people of color, God forbid, or groups like gays and lesbians, there would be an understandable outcry that would demand change," Falwell told Baptist Press. "It is a tragedy that Christian lives do not seem to have the same value to the national media."
As an example, he pointed to the more than 2 million Christians in Sudan who have been killed by the nation's militant Islamic regime in recent years, and yet there has been little coverage of the killings.
Falwell said America in general, and Jews and Christians in particular, have more to fear from radical Islam than from Nazism or communism in the past.
This isn't the first time Falwell has thumbed his nose at the politically correct.
As WorldNetDaily reported, Falwell came under fire late last year for asserting that "Muhammad is a terrorist."
On a "60 Minutes" broadcast Oct. 6, Falwell told CBS interviewer Bob Simon: "I think Muhammad was a terrorist. I read enough, by both Muslims and non-Muslims, [to decide] that he was a violent man, a man of war."
Falwell told WND just before the interview was aired that his intent was not to attack Muhammad.
"I have avoided that. But [Simon] was pressing me on the issue of Muhammad's behavior, his involvement in war, and I simply said what I do believe, that Muhammad is not a good example for most Muslim people."
Following the "60 Minutes" interview, a leading Islamic group in Canada announced its intention to take legal action against Falwell and the Canadian channels that broadcast the interview.
Canadian Islamic Congress President Mohamed Elmasry told WorldNetDaily he believes criminal charges could be brought against "the person who made the statement and any accessories he used" under the country's hate-crimes laws.
In a June 15 column, Falwell also defended fellow Southern Baptist pastor Dr. Jerry Vines for his controversial declaration that Muhammad was a "demon-possessed pedophile."
Falwell pointed out that Vines was referencing the new book, "Unveiling Islam: An Insider's Look at Muslim Life and Beliefs" written by scholars Ergun and Emir Caner, who are Christian brothers raised as Muslims, as well as the Hadith, considered a respected source for Islamic teaching among Muslim clerics and followers worldwide.
"If you want to raise the ire of the mainstream press and the swarm of politically correct organizations in this nation, just criticize Islam," Falwell mused. "If those in the media were doing their jobs, Dr. Vines would never have felt it necessary to point out these disquieting elements of an enigmatic religion."
There are literally millions of people on planet Earth being murdered in the name of "Allah" -- thousands a day -- and you dare to serve up this retarded analogy??
Move to the back of the reality class -- waaay to the back, Gandhi. Then call in the duty nurse for a dose of r-e-a-l-i-t-y.
Sure I can. I can show you several of them.
In fact you show me some in your very next sentence;
Oh I guess if you're a homosexual, a bestiality imbiber, or a Canaanite you might have a reason to be offended --
...Or an adulterer, anyone who strikes their parent, anyone who curses their parent, anyone who's ox kills someone if he knew it was dangerous, anyone who defiles or works on the Sabbath, who commits incest, anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord, who is not a priest who enters the tabernacle, anyone who prophesizes falsely, practices witchcraft, or a false religion...
all of these and more are commanded to be put to death in the Old Testament.
Not to mention the pagan nations which God sent Israel to war against, commanding them to kill every person and animal.
Jesus is even quoted in the New Testament as saying He did not come to bring peace, but rather a sword.
So once again, my point is there are many people who point to these passages and claim the Bible teaches violence, that the God of the Bible is blood-thirsty etc. just like there are those who say these things about the Koran.
but the Bible always holds out hope for those that repent.
Many, if not most of those things I mentioned from the Old Testament above make no mention of repentance, or sparing anybody.
Sure, the Gospel message preaches repentance and conversion, but many Muslims also claim their religion preaches the same thing.
Let me make myself clear. I believe the Bible is the Word of God, that Christ is the One and ONLY Son of God...and believe Islam is a false religion.
However I believe that arguing the points you refer to above simply doesn't help anything, and in fact usually only results in a more antagonistic relation between Christians and Muslims.
And simply that we are supposed to be a nation that allows freedom of religion.
Amen...
Now if he can only refrain from back pedaling at 78 RPMs as he's done frequently in the past.
Ok, I will.
You say that there are no passages in the Bible that say to kill unbelievers. With all due respect you are mistaken and I can provide specifics.
Those who practice pagan religions are to be put to death according to several Old Testament commandments. Those who practice witchcraft..those who are false prophets are all to be put to death.
God also commands His people to put to death all the people in unbelieving pagan nations in some places....one example would be the Amalekites who God called sinners and told Saul to kill every last one of them, alone with all their livestock.(1 Samuel 15:18)
And again, this has nothing to do with making broad brush comparisons or any moral equivalency angle.
I don't beleive there is any moral equivalency between Christianity/the Bible, and a false religion like Islam.
My point is that arguing over the interpretation and context of passages from the Bible and Koran that some say advocate violence is for the most part simply a waste of time.
What in this article should Falwell apologise for Jorge? Get back to me post enema.
Jesus says that what comes out of a man's mouth shows what's in his heart. Reading the above speaks volumes about you. How sad.
But allow me to respond;
I said that Falwell has apologized more than once for the sorts of statements we see in the article. And I ASKED the question....saying I wondered which one he will apologize for next.
I didn't say what he should or shouldn't apologize for...even though you are desperately trying to pry an opinion out of me on this...I'll decide what questions I answer and when. In any case you really should learn to read posts before you respond to them.
That way you might be able to articulate a coherant response instead of the sorry expression of frustration you display above.
Just a suggestion.
It's just that "...dominion belongs to the LORD and he rules over the nations." thing, from Psalm 144.
It's just that "Blessed are the people of whom this is true; blessed are the people whose God is the LORD." thing, from Psalm 22.
It's just that "For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." thing, from Jude 1.
To one who has referred to the Bible in this thread,
Here, from Matthew, chapter 5:
You have heard that the ancients were told,'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
It's good to do that - refer to the Bible - it can be like eating popcorn, once one starts, one may not want to quit (which is a fine thing).
Good point. Islam loses any status as a religion when its "spiritual leaders" issue calls for murder. At that point it is a murderous cult, plain and simple. By their fruits you shall know them...
Here are posts comparing harsh behavior in the Koran and the Bible, from another Thread - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/814728/posts
Capt., all, I'd be interested in finding quotations and analysis here. Know where that may be found?
Here are a few leads read the Koran and report back on your conclusions. - Tom
Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191) "Ye are the best of peoples evolved for mankind." (Koran 3:110)
"Not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (Koran 5:51)
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)
"Fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5)
Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (Koran 9:14).
"Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39).
"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)
"Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123)
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40)
"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)
"strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4) Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits!
"The Christians say: The Christ is the son of Allah; "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:29)
These are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them." (Sura 9:30)
"Unbelievers are those who say: 'God is one of three.' There is but one God. If they do not desist from so saying, those of them that disbelieve shall be sternly punished." (Surah 5:73)
48 posted on 12/31/2002 12:18 PM PST by Capt. Tom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]
The Old Testament reflects the Grace of God just as the New Testament.God never ordered Israel to destroy another nation without allowing them to repent.Islam required they convert this is different from repenting.In every case where God ordered the destruction of a nation they were beyond contempt as a people.Christians never need apoligize for or avoid the Old Testament.Jesus is referenced their as often as in the New Testament
49 posted on 12/31/2002 12:31 PM PST by Blessed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]
"strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4) Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits!
Well, nowhere in the Bible does it say that a man can march very far without his head, no matter how long or short his chain is....
But seriously, as an exercise in objectivity (i.e., subjectivity to God's truth and consistent ways of determining it) I must say that there are quotes one can take from the Bible, Old Testament mostly, that are similar to some (but not all!) of these.
However, from what I've seen, they are either...
1. God telling people in the OT to kill off others in specific instances (and he knows what their just, eternal and self-directed ends are anyway and it's his call to make) or...
2. People such as David going off in anger in the Psalms, despite God's love - called "imprecatory Psalms" in some seminaries, etc. (and this shows in itself, that the God of the Bible allows and supports freedom of thought --and even general freedom of speech in this world), or...
3. People acting on their own, in disobedience, or...
4. Simply, the way warfare or self defense was carried out --in ways that we would have to allow for and not violent toward those who mean no harm, unlike the behavior these Koran quotes seem to proscribe.
But nowhere does the Bible prophetically call for God's followers to do violent things in principle, such as murdering unbelievers. Just the opposite. (See the Ten Items that the ACLU wants taken out of American culture.) And BTW, in the law handed down to Moses for that time, there are precepts and instructions as to the freedom and hospitatlity one is to show those who aren't "children of Israel" and do not believe in the "I AM THAT I AM."
So, I raise the question, are any of these quotations actually supposed to be prophetic statements saying that "Allah" wants his followers to commit such acts in principle? Do the contexts for any of these violent statements indicate that they are issued as guiding precepts or commands to be carried out from circumstance to circumstance, for "Allah's" followers?
55 posted on 12/31/2002 12:57 PM PST by unspun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]
To be clear about this...
If, by the purported prophesy of the Koran, its adherents are generally charged or encouraged to kill or maim people for being unconverted "infidels," as a matter of any guiding precept or principle, then it seems clear to me that it is a self-indictment of the Koran as a document of hatred and mayhem, and of Islam as a terrorist cult.
Hey, there's more. I thought Post 84 was it...
I just read Post 86 -- pretty much a rehash of Post 84, to which I already responded. This time it was those damn giants, the Amalekites (these were the Canaanites that scared off the Hebrews when they were initially attempting to enter into the Promised Land). Yup, God's command was pretty harsh. Completely destroy the Canaanite (and to us, 'Completely destroy sin'). The Hebrews failed, Saul failed, and we failed. And there is only one solution - a Saviour.
But again, I rehash. I think we must be on different wavelengths. The Biblical references are quite specific and cover a very limited historical period. The universal spiritual message, comes from equating these commands to the command to destroy sin.
I don't think its a waste of time to try and understand the open-ended Mohammedan command to 'kill and lie to the infidel'. Particularly since I'm an 'infidel'. If there is some rationale that limits these verses to a particular time and place in Medina -- or there is a deeper spiritual meaning, I'd sure like to hear them.
And therein lies the point on which we seem to be talking past each other. There are no current commands for believers to bring Judgements. The passages you quoted were of a limited historical nature - and there is no hint that they are to be interpreted to still be in place (if you feel like whacking some 8 foot Canaanite dude, you're on your own). The open-ended command to the believers is to bring the Gospel, and God will provide the Judgement. On the other hand, the Koranish commands to 'kill and lie to the infidel' appear to be operative - and have been used by some of the more fundamental adherants of Islam to justify their 'deeds'. Until these passages are refuted - Enquiring minds are going to continue to ask questions.
Well enough of this for today. Have a blessed Sabbath.
Give it a rest!
This second grade "comparison" is getting tedious.
First of all everybody knows that Tim McVeigh never did anything that anyone knows of "in the name of Christ".
Dozens of muslims commit murder, mayhem and other atrocities daily in the name of "allah". Now. This month. This week. Tomorrow. The day after.
Your pathetic "if" at the beginning of that sentence makes reading the rest of the red herring a waste of time.
Can't the sand-maggots come up with more rational and adult arguments?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.