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To: DWSUWF
There is something very wrong with attempting to make a copy of one's self. The danger is that the cloned would try to impose her personality on the clone.

Aside from the repugnant genetic manipulation this allows, I think it wise to understand that the last time this debate surfaced, about 2 years ago, a huge number of people seemed to think this was a swell idea, since they would have SPARE PARTS!

I can foresee an industry of clone centers where the clones are kept in case they are "needed."

The cult that supposedly has produced this child speaks of transferring one's memory and personality to the clone, in an effort to attain immortality.

All in all, human cloning should be banned.

5 posted on 12/31/2002 5:43:21 AM PST by Miss Marple
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To: Miss Marple
"There is something very wrong with attempting to make a copy of one's self.

Why? What exactly might that be?

"The danger is that the cloned would try to impose her personality on the clone."

Why is this any worse than what any parent(s) does?

"Aside from the repugnant genetic manipulation this allows, I think it wise to understand that the last time this debate surfaced, about 2 years ago, a huge number of people seemed to think this was a swell idea, since they would have SPARE PARTS! I can foresee an industry of clone centers where the clones are kept in case they are "needed."

So make THIS illegal--not that doing so will totally prevent it, but it will reduce it.

"The cult that supposedly has produced this child speaks of transferring one's memory and personality to the clone, in an effort to attain immortality."

They are nuts.

"All in all, human cloning should be banned."

Sorry, case not proven.

7 posted on 12/31/2002 6:04:53 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Miss Marple
Read Jack Vance's excellent short novel To Live Forever...
8 posted on 12/31/2002 6:05:32 AM PST by boris
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To: Miss Marple
I don't agree with much of what you say, but you said it with some attention to detail, so it's worth replying to.

"...There is something very wrong with attempting to make a copy of one's self..."

This is simply your opinion, not an objective truth.

That being said, the chief motivation for producing a clone of oneself WOULD seem to be an exercise in hubris, which -if not 'wrong' per se- is at least tacky.

"...The danger is that the cloned would try to impose her personality on the clone..."

While possibly, maybe even probably true, this is no different a burden that that endured by virtually every son of a successful man since the dawn of time.

"...Aside from the repugnant genetic manipulation this allows, I think it wise to understand that the last time this debate surfaced, about 2 years ago, a huge number of people seemed to think this was a swell idea, since they would have SPARE PARTS!..."

'Spare Parts' will happen. And the technology to produce individual, genetic match organs will far outstrip what cloning could bring to the table.

Within a generation, those who produce such repair parts will shake their heads and chuckle at the notion that anyone would have ever considered the possibility of producing a clone to supply a liver, or a heart.

If your Buick's left headlight shoots craps do you buy an identical Buick just to 'cut out' its left headlight?

Of course not.

And neither will the organ builders.

"...I can foresee an industry of clone centers where the clones are kept in case they are "needed."..."

Why spend billions of dollars using a wasteful method, AND swim against the tide of history and morality, when you can spend a few hundred thousand to achieve the result elegantly, and be praised as a servant of mankind?

No one will ever do what you fear, on a widespread commercial basis. Simple economics will prevent it from being a acceptable option.

Honestly, you paint an image of a world where every identical twin should be wary of their sibling, lest they be targeted for 'organ harvesting' by their evil twin.

"...The cult that supposedly has produced this child speaks of transferring one's memory and personality to the clone, in an effort to attain immortality..."

Yes... If the technology to copy, or move, personalities from one brain (cloned or otherwise) to another is ever developed a can of worms will be opened by it.

But that isn't what we're talking about.

Cloning is nothing more, and nothing less, than the simple encore of a genome. Embryos that divide to form identical twins do it in the womb all the time. It's not the Xeroxing of a mind, or the duplication of a soul.

There may come a time when the red-meat argument is whether or not to simply transcend our biological bodies, not whether to utilize a clumsy, ancient 'lifeboat' paradigm, maintaining existence through an endless chain of fragile organic bodies, any one of which can be destroyed unexpectedly.

For those ambitious enough to pursue physical immortality, or something close to it, cloning is ultimately a dead end.

"...All in all, human cloning should be banned..."

Before we pursue the unachievable chimera of banning this means for the creation of new lives we should first ban the wanton destruction of lives through the form of murder called abortion.

History is a steamroller for those who hold up their hands and demand it to stop.

11 posted on 12/31/2002 6:36:36 AM PST by DWSUWF
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To: Miss Marple
Kind of hard to ban ALL human cloning. Ever see identical twins ? Natural Clones. (The egg split apart after fertilization, and implanted in two or more locations in the womb).

As for "spare parts", the inevitable end of cloning research will likely be the ability to clone individual organs. As for your Clone Spare Parts scenario, it's been done in various types of SF for years: I remember a "Sliders" episode about the topic. . .

AS for the Raelian Cult, they have a serious case of crainial-rectal inversion. . . .
12 posted on 12/31/2002 6:38:25 AM PST by Salgak
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