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If you believe that people are basically good ?
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Tuesday, December 31, 2002 | Dennis Prager

Posted on 12/30/2002 11:02:27 PM PST by JohnHuang2

No issue has a greater influence on determining your social and political views than whether you view human nature as basically good or not.

In 20 years as a radio talk-show host, I have dialogued with thousands of people, of both sexes and from virtually every religious, ethnic and national background. Very early on, I realized that perhaps the major reason for political and other disagreements I had with callers was that they believed people are basically good, and I did not. I believe that we are born with tendencies toward both good and evil. Yes, babies are born innocent, but not good.

Why is this issue so important?

First, if you believe people are born good, you will attribute evil to forces outside the individual. That is why, for example, our secular humanistic culture so often attributes evil to poverty. Washington Sen. Patty Murray, former President Jimmy Carter and millions of other Westerners believe that the cause of Islamic terror is poverty. They really believe that people who strap bombs to their bodies to blow up families in pizzerias in Israel, plant bombs at a nightclub in Bali, slit stewardesses' throats and ram airplanes filled with innocent Americans into office buildings do so because they lack sufficient incomes.

Something in these people cannot accept the fact that many people have evil values and choose evil for reasons having nothing to do with their economic situation. The Carters and Murrays of the West – representatives of that huge group of naive Westerners identified by the once proud title "liberal" – do not understand that no amount of money will dissuade those who believe that God wants them to rule the world and murder all those they deem infidels.

Second, if you believe people are born good, you will not stress character development when you raise children. You will have schools teach young people how to use condoms, how to avoid first and secondhand tobacco smoke, how to recycle and how to prevent rainforests from disappearing. You will teach them how to struggle against the evils of society – its sexism, its racism, its classism and its homophobia. But you will not teach them that the primary struggle they have to wage to make a better world is against their own nature.

I attended Jewish religious schools (yeshivas) until the age of 18, and aside from being taught that moral rules come from God rather than from personal or world opinion, this was the greatest difference between my education and those who attended public and private secular schools. They learned that their greatest struggles were with society, and I learned that the greatest struggle was with me, and my natural inclinations to laziness, insatiable appetites and self-centeredness.

Third, if you believe that people are basically good, God and religion are morally unnecessary, even harmful. Why would basically good people need a God or religion to provide moral standards? Therefore, the crowd that believes in innate human goodness tends to either be secular or to reduce God and religion to social workers, providers of compassion rather than of moral standards and moral judgments.

Fourth, if you believe people are basically good, you, of course, believe that you are good – and therefore those who disagree with you must be bad, not merely wrong. You also believe that the more power that you and those you agree with have, the better the society will be. That is why such people are so committed to powerful government and to powerful judges. On the other hand, those of us who believe that people are not basically good do not want power concentrated in any one group, and are therefore profoundly suspicious of big government, big labor, big corporations and even big religious institutions. As Lord Acton said long ago, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord Acton did not believe people are basically good.

No great body of wisdom, East or West, ever posited that people were basically good. This naive and dangerous notion originated in modern secular Western thought, probably with Jean Jacques Rousseau, the Frenchman who gave us the notion of pre-modern man as a noble savage.

He was half right. Savage, yes, noble, no.

If the West does not soon reject Rousseau and humanism and begin to recognize evil, judge it and confront it, it will find itself incapable of fighting savages who are not noble.


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To: Lessismore
People are inherently evil.

I'd say selfish, rather than evil. And I would regard such selfishness as being no more evil than fire. To be sure, it can--if left nchecked--be grossly destructive and may be used for evil ends. On the other hand, as the primary motive force behind human behavior, it is also an essential requirement for doing good.

61 posted on 12/31/2002 12:13:31 PM PST by supercat
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To: JohnHuang2
Later Bump
62 posted on 12/31/2002 12:36:53 PM PST by Pagey
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To: Undivided Heart
My point is that people are inherently good. They are also ignorant, short-sighted, boorish, sometimes mean. But they are inherently good -- because people are inherently good does not mean that we should tolerate evil. People are also complex. My 2 cents ...
63 posted on 12/31/2002 1:37:03 PM PST by Phaedrus
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To: Phaedrus
"...people are inherently good."

Goodness is gained. It is not the same as "nice".

64 posted on 12/31/2002 4:15:12 PM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug
I don't mean "nice". There is a whole, long philosophical aspect to all of this but without too much "he said, she said", I believe we are all fundamentally graced, that we each have within us a spark of divinity, no matter how evil our actions, that Man's basic intent is good, no matter how twisted his actions. I believe that when someone acts against this basic orientation, it takes effort, sometimes great effort. And I base this upon my personal experience. Those in my family, my neighborhood, those with whom I interact, are fundamentally good people and the exceptions are rare. And this is now most definitely more than 2 cents worth ... ;-}
65 posted on 12/31/2002 4:55:29 PM PST by Phaedrus
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To: dennisw
Thanks for the ping
66 posted on 12/31/2002 4:57:53 PM PST by dalebert
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To: JohnHuang2
The conservative vision is the tragic vision. We do not believe in the perfectability of human nature. Rather, we believe in freedom and the rule of law to bring about the best possible results , given our state of original sin.
67 posted on 12/31/2002 4:58:10 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: JohnHuang2
People are born as they were pre-destined to be born, live, and die. Some good, some evil.
68 posted on 12/31/2002 5:13:48 PM PST by lodwick
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To: Phaedrus
God is good, to which we hopefully aspire in His image. Though good is attainable only. The soul accountable for its debits and credits.

And I base this upon my personal experience.

You're not the only person to ever have lived.

Those of your family, neighborhood, interactions.... Empower them over others to the point where the consequences of their actions seem absent, as was often so for American troops in the field in Vietnam.

You'd find out soon enough who was good, and who wasn't.

69 posted on 12/31/2002 5:23:19 PM PST by onedoug
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To: JohnHuang2
EXCELLENT FIND!
70 posted on 12/31/2002 5:28:12 PM PST by ImpBill
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To: Mamzelle
Liberals believe that most men are evil and the masses must be guided by an enlightened cadre of "good" people. The self-appointed rightous few feel justified in imposing stricts laws and punishments to ensure that people do the right thing.

Conservatives believe that most men are good, and will do the right thing in most cases (especially in regards to their own families and neigbors). A nanny state is not needed to control the masses because most men realize it is in their own interest to behave in a civilized fashion. However, conservatives realize a small number of evil men will always be with us, and form limited government to provide a common defense against such men.

Those of you who think greed is evil will be philosophically ill-equipted to counter those truely evil men who want to steal the fruits of your labor. All they have to do to disarm you is make you feel guilty for wanting what is yours.

71 posted on 12/31/2002 5:31:13 PM PST by BigBobber
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To: Phaedrus
Very eloquent. Thank you. If God made us in his own image, how could the result be primarily evil?
72 posted on 12/31/2002 5:34:01 PM PST by BigBobber
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To: onedoug
Each individual must be judged by their words and deeds.
73 posted on 12/31/2002 5:36:42 PM PST by PGalt
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To: JohnHuang2
A Rousseau-like view of the world is stupid and misinformed.

Hopefully, Americans will stop being so optimistic and take the realistic route of Hobbes and Augustine. Otherwise, we will eventually be destroyed.
74 posted on 12/31/2002 5:40:13 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: fastdraw
Indeed. That is why I am an Augustinian/Calvinist.
75 posted on 12/31/2002 5:41:52 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: Phaedrus
You a Libertarian?
76 posted on 12/31/2002 5:43:50 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: fporretto
Mankind is inherently evil.
77 posted on 12/31/2002 5:47:22 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: JohnHuang2
Men Good! Women Bad!

Ge:3:9: And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

Ge:3:10: And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Ge:3:11: And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Ge:3:12: And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

(this thread needed to be lightened up a bit.

78 posted on 12/31/2002 5:47:30 PM PST by right way right
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To: McNoggin
Interesting, but Christ took it further. We don't love others WHEN LOOKING AT THE FACT THAT WE WANT TO BE LOVED AND TREATED LIKE THAT. As believers, we love others and treat them good BECAUSE WE ARE CALLED TO.
79 posted on 12/31/2002 5:50:06 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: Undivided Heart
I thinnk he is Libertarian and Libertarians have more in common with liberals on the nature of man than conservatives.
80 posted on 12/31/2002 5:52:40 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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