U.S. troops get Bosnian education

Washington Times ^ | Sunday, December 29, 2002 | By Guy Taylor

[JohnHuang2]

EAGLE BASE, TUZLA, Bosnia-Herzegovina ? U.S. soldiers stationed here are quick to point out that the large pine tree decorated with lights and holiday ornaments near the center of the base is not a Christmas tree.

"It's a liberty tree," said Maj. Shawn R. Mell, explaining that an important part of living on this NATO base, which is headquarters to the American component of the international peacekeeping mission in Bosnia, is learning to appreciate the country's mix of religions, with Muslims the plurality.

[smokegenerator]

Explain why many US IFOR soldiers state "bosnian muslims are thieves"...LOL... you are such a hypocrit, as nearly 9 of 10 I have spoken with have stated the above. You, my little soldier boy, are full of bluster. You are boring me and go play someplace else.

[smokegenerator]

by categorizing by ethnicity is reality. As a police officer, who do you suspect as the purpertrator- the black or white man? Do not tell me neither, as I do have many police officers as friends whom I served with. Even the "dark green" Marines (all are former) state the man of color? Why? Reality, butterbars. You talk a good talk, but the majority you serve with do not believe nor share your sentiments. The only one is the 6, but then again, you avoid the question. Who would you trust, the Bosnian Serb or the Bosnian Muslim? I will know if you are withholding the truth from past experiences, this should be an interesting answer if you do answer instead of waffling.

You have a choice to choose between the Bosnian Serb or the Bosnian Muslim as your partner on a hot patrol against non-identified tangos, who do you choose? I already know the answer from "reality US-IFOR" soldiers...:))

[davidosborne]

You have a choice to choose between the Bosnian Serb or the Bosnian Muslim as your partner on a hot patrol against non-identified tangos, who do you choose?

You have not provided sufficient background information concerning my 2 choices.. I would need to know more background, training, experience, etc of the 2.., as an NCO another huge factor in determining who I select for the "hot patrol" is attitude, and ability to make sound and timely decisions under stressful circumstances.... to make the decision based solely on thier ethnicity would be the dumbest thing I could do..

[davidosborne]

The US military (under Clinton) in Bosnia and Kosovo was (mis)used as a tool of oppression by liberal HumWarriors such as the UN overlords of Bosnia and Kosovo. Both places are far worse off now than before Wasshington interventionists got involved.

I don't have enough information to make those conclusions but assuming you are correct... I served and continue to serve my country whenever and whereever I am called.. I have taken an oath that requires me to DISOBEY any UNLAWFUL orders.. and I can't say with any degree of certainty that my orders were unlawful...

[Lion's Cub]

I agree it is garbage, but I'd expect nothing less. You'll notice they never talk to the musli about learning tolerance and understanding... And I don't buy that "massacre" BS, either.

[smokegenerator]

BS! You are refusing to answer the question. Vast majority of the US-IFOR would prefer the Serb over the Muslim, as obviously, you are a quantifying yourself in becoming a protege of a Wesley Clark-style officer, an officer in name only, not a leader.

[smokegenerator]

as an NCO another huge factor in determining who I select for the "hot patrol" is attitude, and ability to make sound and timely decisions under stressful circumstances.... to make the decision based solely on thier ethnicity would be the dumbest thing I could do.. You are a real work, a hoplite in the making, are you his understudy? I will tell you the answer I have recieved, "I'd rather work with the Serbs then Muslims, they are more reliable and trustworthy when dealing with". Not word for word, but the two keywords used frequently were reliable and trustworthy and rather work with the Serbs.

Were you ever there or were you assigned Bn Guard or Base Security Guard the whole time? Geesh!

[F-117A]

Biljana Plavsic, who served as his deputy during the war and later as Bosnian Serb president, pleaded guilty at The Hague in October to multiple counts of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes.

I've struct out parts of the above because they are false. Bijana did NOT plead guilty to genocide or conspiricty to commit genocide, Counts 1 and 2. She plead guilty only to count 3.

I'll add the links later.

[Destro]

davidosborne sounds like a an who is rightly proud of his service and professionalisim but he is in denial about the mission for which his services were misused. NATO's actions in Bosnia had allowed al-Qaeda to use it as a base for terror to direct 9/11 attacks. It continues to serve as a nest for al-Qaeda and NATO may go after individuals but it does nothing to root out the systemic problem that is America's support (in public anyway-must keep up appearances careers in Washington are at stake) for the Islamic part of Bosnia:

From: Analysis: Bosnian charities aid terror? "You can't trust a lot of these Muslim guys"

But while Bosnian cooperation has impressed some officials, some intelligence operatives from U.S. and NATO agencies believe the close ties between elements of the Bosnian military and intelligence establishments and the Islamic world compromises it as a partner in the fight against religious terrorism.

"You can't trust a lot of these Muslim guys (in the Bosnian intelligence and police services)," one mid-level NATO officer said. "Why would they be candid with a journalist about the crackdown? These are their friends who supplied them with arms during the war."

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!

[smokegenerator]

I am not denying his pride in serving his country. I am very proud of my TIS for the Marine Corps and will never trade it for the world. I look out for my fellow veterans in every intance. His denial and hallucinations of a make believe world cant sugar coat the reality of life in the balkans, or europe for that matter

[Looking4Truth]

" "It's a liberty tree," said Maj. Shawn R. Mell, explaining that an important part of living on this NATO base, which is headquarters to the American component of the international peacekeeping mission in Bosnia, is learning to appreciate the country's mix of religions, with Muslims the plurality. "

What a load!!

Are military officers required to attend more touchy-feely seminars than war college type courses these days? Seems like it to me.

[davidosborne]

If you had the clearance you would be able to view my personnel file.....

[smokegenerator]

I do not need see your file as I had clearance one time. I just observe your answers which you toe-the-party line. Not good, david, not good. Why dont you express your opinions and not some PC garble? FRmail me, we will converse. I was once like you, as I said, once til I learned and was witness to who lied and who was manipulated, used, abused over there...

It would be nice to have your views practiced instead of preached by the masses, wouldnt it?

[branicap]

Mister Osborne,I have read your CV,so you don`t have to tell me that you`re a "law enforcement officer" .Florida,right?But,with due respect,I have to explain some facts of life to you in order to brake that cocoon that you live in...ecpecially,when you`re abroad!Otherwise,you`ll go back to Florida so proud of yourself and as much ignorant as you were when you first entered Bosnia(and Europe,I suppose).

Ignorant in the affairs of other people,I mean.

I have a problem with your posts and way of thinking,and I`ll tell you why:

You talk to much about God and your faith?You`re Christian,right?So,in order to understand where you are I have a suggestion:in a few days ,it will be a Orthodox(Serbian) Christmass.So,instead of worshiping in that portable Chapel of yours,why don`t you go to a Serbian church near by.In average,they are much older than your country,survived all invaders,500 years of Ottoman Muslim occupation,Nazi crimes of WWII,Croatian/Muslim perpetrated genocide of the same era...and your "neutral" bombing!Somehow,they can not survive your "rule of law and your benevolent protection" in Kosovo when more than 100 of them are raised to the ground!But,who are we to complain,Senator Lieberman has declared that "USA and KLA share the same values and beliefes..."Never mind,you`re a law inforcement officer.

So,go to the church at Good Friday,and don`t worry,you`ll be perfectly safe among Serbs.And,at the end of the service no one will ask you for money or give you a bank account number to send your check!Maybe,than you will realise that some people were worshiping the same God as you 500 years before Christians reached American Coast.Aggainst all odds!And have never been so fundamentalistic in their beliefes as you are.After all,the term "fundamentalist" was introduced in 20s to describe some American Christian faiths,long before it had become a synonim for (some) Islamic groups!

Maybe than you`ll realise who was "used and abused" for centuries in Bosnia and Hercegovina...and still is.Maybe you`ll realise that in that church there is more faith and Christianity than in all your Evangelical Preachers with their sermons and bank numbers put together!Than,try to talk with the people,maybe you`ll learn something....something that you ,deep inside,allready know.And that something is that USA had suffered an attack at 9/11 and declared that fact " a worst atrocity in history"!!!And Islam as a whole is an enemy!And you want blood,the more the merrier!Bomb everybody,Axis of Evil,Iraq has to be destroyed becouse of "weapons of mass destruction" with the use of your weapons of mass destruction.Democratic one,that is much different,right!How would you describe that as a law officer?Justifiable homicide,right?

You will never forget 9/11,right?So how do you expect people of Bosnia to forget all the wars and occupations in the last 500 years???Overnight?Under your guidance,Bible in one hand and McDonalds in another!?You will show them leadership(make people do things YOUR way.....at the point of a gun!)Nice leadership,really.

You talk about "rule of law".What law?Whose law?Do you know that according to the international law and 1975 Helsinki Accords "State borders can not be changed by force.......violent seccession is unlawfull and illegal..."And yet,your country,country of laws, had supported gladly violent seccessionists in former Yugoslavia!Then,your country had done everything in her power to undermine a peace process in Bosnia.Lisbon Accords were not signed by Muslim party(Izetbegovich)had withdrew his signature on the order of Ambasador Zimmerman and the war draged on for 3 more years!Never mind.

Let me tell you something about your current post,Tuzla.

Tuzla,my late father`s first post!A young Yugoslav fighter pilot,flying F-86 Sabre!Good that he`s dead cause,if he knew that his "beloved American allies" had bombed his country and people he would commit suicide!Tuzla,a place where your "neutral" USAF was delivering weapons to the Muslims,strait from Iran and Pakistan.In the direct breach of UN Resolutions and bla,bla,bla...Respect for the "Rule of Law" again,don`t you think,David?Today,Iran is "Axis of Evil" and Pakistan is fighting for the 4th place (with Saudi Arabia).Galant friends you have.The resault of your neutrality is creation of Islamistan in the heart of Europe,European Colombia in Kosovo and Albania(share the same values like USA)...drugs ,weapons,white slavery,prostitution,poverty in one of the very prosperous and advanced country till 91.

Rule of law?You call removal of the Bosnian politicians,elected by the voters on the elections supervised by you legal?You don`t like the winners so ,remove them?What law is that?

I could write a few milion words on this subject,but,I am tired ...and what`s the point anyway?

David,take your sanctimounious blinkers of and understand:Bosnia is finished and is an artificial occupied state.Held together by force,against all logic and common sense!In order to satisfy a few Western politicians.It will never be viable,in this way,again.It will be viable,and stable when it is devided.When reality and will of the people is respected!Then,the very same people of Bosnia will know where they are,what is theirs.Then,the new border will slowly desapear,trade and economy will improve...but not under your gun and your "impartial boot"!People will travel using only an ID,old conections will be reestablished just like it`s happening now between Yugoslavia and Croatia and Slovenia...It is inevitable.But,as long as policemen from Florida,who haven`r got a clue what it is all about is in charge,Bosnia has no chance.Nor does Macedonia,almost destroyed by your mates from KLA trained and armed by Uncle Sam.

NB.If you want someone to watch your 6 on patrol,chose a Serb.He was always your friend and ally.Muslim and Croat were not.They are German clients,and add a little but of Islam in that lott and ...you`ve got a picture,I hope.

Finally,you`ve got as much chance to catch Karadzich as Germans did when they were trying to catch 600+ American aviators shot down over Yugoslavia in WWII and saved and hidden by "beastly" Serbs.

David,try to think,and don`t try to impress anybody with your forefathers,please!Other people have forefathers to,much "older" than yours!And,try not to bragg about freedom and liberty,some people were dieing for them centuries before your Boston Tea Party.

"For the Holy Cross and Golden Liberty"-Serbian Battle Cry in the Battle of Kosovo.28th of June 1389.

World is not DisneyWorld in Orlando,Mr Osborn,so,don`t behave like Mickey Mouse,please!Take off your Ray Bans and open your eyes,otherwise,your trip to Balkans is nothing more than waste of time.

Happy Christmas and New Year,to you!

[inquest]

Great post. It's true that in treating Serbia the way we've been, the U.S. has been throwing away a perfectly good ally in the War on Terror - a country that we have a lot in common with. But then, we seem to have had a history over the past several decades of dumping on good allies (Mihajlovic, the Hungarian patriots of 1956, Katanga, Taiwan, etc.).

[kosta50]

You make some very strong and sensible arguments, Brane. Very well put. Mr. Osborne should be invoted to reply and explain his perceptions. I think his views are honest but his ability to make sense of the whole picture of the Balkan complexity is flawed.

KOCTA

[kosta50]

Russian Orthodox Serbs? Can you believe that? So much for free press -- it's free to lie and dysinform as well! It's also free to hire complete imbecils who have no clue what they are writing about.

[smokegenerator]

Many of the US-IFOR troopers went in-country firebreathing Serb-bashing, anti-Serb jody calling. When they returned stateside, the opposite of media perception occured. There have been reasons for that turnaround. We just have to get these hoplitese FReepers to admit what they are and who they function for. On here, not much can be done as many skeptics remain and will remain unmoved in their positions.

[branicap]

Thank you,thank you,thank you....what else do you expect from a genius like me but a great posts!?LOOOOOOOOOL

Humor aside,I`ll try to answer you all in one post,so,buckle up!

Inquest,USA have no friends,only interests...just as any other country.Incompetent and,at best,mediocre Serbian lidership in the last 15 years had forgotten that lesson at the expence of the Serbian nation as a whole.Consequences will be felt for a generation.

Secondly,American political life is based on open lobbying so...it`s not Albanian fault that they have a ever powerfull Bob Dole on the retainer to champion their cause!Recently aquired asset for their cause is one and only William Walker "Mr. Racak Massacre"!Just check their site;American-Albanian League.Mr. Walker is allready in the Board of Trustiess!It is easy for them to wisper sweet little lies to editors and other politicians over some power lunch in some fancy Washington restaurant.And,Mr Dole is very well informed indeed:his main advisor for the Balkan Affairs is a woman,doughter of the Croat WWII Ustasha criminal who escaped to USA in 45.As one "informed" journalist said"Mr. Dole`s personal asistant is of great help to him,and she speaks fluently, both Croatian and Serbian language!"And,I speak fluently (almost)both English and American language,to!Enough said about "Balkan experts in the US press",Kosta,therefore,all orthodox Christians are RUSSIANS of course!

Following the press and other media,and after my freaquent contacts with western journalists the first thing that comes to my mind is the famous Logo of the Commintern:"Proletarians of all the countries,unite!"My version is "Imbeciles of all countries,unite!"And pursue a carrier in journalisam....

What else can an intelligent person think after watching that bimbo in NY at 9/11 15 min after both planes crushed into WTC asking some policeman:"Do you think that this was planed?????"So I suggest a new idea in accordance with US Army Bosnian policy!How about "US media get BASIC EDUCATION!"

My post to David Osborn is friendly and benevolent.No more,no less.I hope that he will one day,realise that he should learn more about other people.MOre about history.But not from his officers.He will spend his tour driving arround in his conwoy of Hummers,worship every Sunday(or day) in that PortaLoo Chapel;eat burgers and think "USA is great"!May be,he will have a pizza in Tuzla.I suggest pizzerria owned by Naser Orich,great American ally.After all,he is personaly responsible of killing 1000+ Serbian civillians,mostly elderlies.Maybe,Naser can give him some tips how to catch that criminal Karadzic,after all.Wait a minute,I have a briliant idea!Why just wait and watch that village of Chelebichi??Why waist all that fuel for chopers and Apachies:just let Naser in,he will sloughter them all,and,eventualy,the last survivor will tell where is Radovan!!!David,pass this to the headquarters,please!

Between attending lessons about Islam,under the "Liberty Tree"!Actually,David you should drag that imam under the tree and convert him to Christianity!It could be an easy job,(probbably that Imam or his family) were Christians a century ago.So that he could become New Born Again!That would be a grandiose victory.Than,you should do the same with the Serbian(Russian in American language)Orthodox Priest!Good luck!

Crazy,still very passionate,as I can see!?That`s what makes you interesting.But,I think that Smoke is misunderstood.

That`s it,for now,gotta go!Have to find SuperDupe to impale him!

Isn`t it what the decent Serbs do to other Balkanoids?I`ll rape him later!

BYE!