Now that human cloning's apparently upon us, is immortality as well? (My title)

CNN.com ^ | Dec. 27th, 2002 | CNN.com

[End The Hypocrisy]

A major announcement regarding human cloning is supposedly underway.

Related article:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-12-27-baby-clone_x.htm

[End The Hypocrisy]

Killing for the sake of prolonging life happens all the time. Have you ever consumed meat? How about plants? They're all "God's" creatures, killed for our culinary pleasures. It's sad, but so is the fact that some people must make merely minimum wage despite clean living and having a good work ethic (although neither reality gets changed).

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The first human clone's a sheep? Wow! Seriously though, hopefully Americans know better than to behave like sheep just because some (politically contributing) evangelists have said cloning should be banned. Other countries won't pay them any attention, incidentally.

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>>>What I can do, however, is make sure I don't use a Physician who claims to have a cure for me because he was contacted by Aliens who gave him the receipe.<<<

Have you ever used a physician who spends time (that could be spent studying) talking to an entity in the Heavens and asking for assistance with performing a procedure for you?

[End The Hypocrisy]

>>>OJ walked in spite of DNA evidence.<<<

To my knowledge, it wasn't the DNA evidence that was questioned...but the authenticity of its location.

[Double Tap]

Now your slipping back into the enviro/communist mind set. You really are all over the board. Animal life is not comparable to human.

And you substituted "killing" for "murder", two very different things. You can't murder a animal, but you can murder a human.

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>>>Animal life is not comparable to human. And you substituted "killing" for "murder", two very different things. You can't murder a animal, but you can murder a human.<<<


Value judgements. Anyhow, I was actually hoping that this thread would have taken on a more TECHNICAL significance.

[RGSpincich]

See? There will always be grounds for an argument.

"The labs doing the tests have falsified the results because they don't like spacemen" being the most likely in this case.

[Double Tap]

Fact.

Just because you don't know right from wrong, doesn't mean the rest of us can't tell the difference.

[End The Hypocrisy]

Do you have anything TECHNICAL (as opposed to "moral") to add to this thread?

[Polybius]

Might it be possible to clone one's self, and transfer one's brain's memory lobes to the new him or her....

Nature has already produced clones and I am sure you have met several of them in your life. They are called "identical twins".

What you have to realize is that "cloning yourself" does not produce a "new you". Cloning yourself produces your "identical twin".

Your identical twin mave have your exact same DNA, it will look like you and will have the same inherited personality traits. However, your twin will be a separate individual with his own life, desires and goals. A lab cloned identical twin will also be raised quite differently from you. You were raised by your young parents in a certain time era that can never be reproduced again. The lab cloned twin will be raised by different parents in a different time with a different societal sub-culture than existed even 30 years ago. The result at age 20 may be quite different than you.

But, let's throw all moral and ethical considerations out the window and let's only consider the pure science of the transplant scenario........

Your body tissue is designed by nature to last a certain time and then wear out. The same applies to your brain. After your brain has been functioning so many decades, the cells begin to be lost, demyelinization begins to take place, small vessel atherosclerosis begins to take place resulting in micro-infarcts, etc, etc.

Let's assume that transplant art was advanced enough for such a transplant. Transplanting the "memory lobes" from such a brain merely puts "old as dirt" memory lobes that are dying of old age into a young healthy body. It's like transplanting a sick 85 year-old heart into a young healthy body. All you have guaranteed is that the rest of the body will not be the cause of death for the transplanted body part.

Let's assume that the 85 year-old billionaire has decided to transplant his memory lobes into the great looking 20 year-old body of the clone he has kept locked away in his lab for twenty years. Five years down the road, the old man's body will be dead, the old man's 20 year-old identical twin's mind would have been killed at surgery and the end result would be a good-looking 25 year-old man with a 90 year-old senile mind........and with 25 year-old hormonal urges.

It won't be a pretty sight.

[laredo44]

We start to swiftly lose brain cells soon thereafter.

Actually, this appears not to be true after all. Seems new brain cells are formed in adults.

[End The Hypocrisy]

That was one of the more technologically thoughtful postings on this thread, for which I thank you. In response, I'm not as pessimistic YET. My computer has memory-related files created not on my previous computer but on the one before that (as well as on my previous computer). Old memories can be assimilated into, and accomodated by, a superior infrastructure that's less likely to corrupt them. Perhaps something analogous to computer memory can take place with the human mind.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure I agree that the human body was designed to fade and die. Lifespans continue to expand and I've read that future generations will have near immortality programmed into their genes.

[laredo44]

No, because as we get older and our health fails, the living conditions often become intolerable. So to live forever in a body that is sick and tired, and unable to function is not normal.

Is this your only objection? If you could live in a perpetually young body would your reservations go away?

[laredo44]

Here's a related question. When science creates artifically intelligent beings, like Data on Star Trek, the Next Generation, would you be willing to transfer your memories, etc. to such a host rather than die without doing so?

[End The Hypocrisy]

>>>Seems new brain cells are formed in adults.<<<

At least that's already documented to be the case in the Hippocampus (where memories are processed before being stored in the brain) and in the olfactory (smell-related) parts of the brain. Interestingly enough, I have read that neural connections store memories...the neurons themselves do not. What that signifies in this context, I do not know.
I DO know though, that some theorize that our own stem cells can hopefully rejuvenate our brains. Meanwhile, brain rejuvenation occurs naturally in rats, just not in most parts of the human brain as far as we know. Perhaps this is because the human brain is so complex and full of elaborate knowledge bases that such rejuvenation could be more disruptive than beneficial. It could be akin to installing a new hard drive into one's computer without formatting it to correspond with the operating system.


Meanwhile, the following article is rather relevant:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25442-2002Oct14.html

Keeping the Brain Young

A growing mass of research points to the importance of mental recreation. Scientists no longer view the brain as a static organ that inevitably declines with age. Quite the opposite. The brain possesses amazing plasticity and can rebuild damaged connections -- all the while expanding its powers.
Education and intellectual activity are correlated with longer life spans and a reduced risk of Alzheimer's disease. People who aggressively use their minds from early childhood through their forties and fifties maintain their memories better as they age.
The famous Nun Study, which analyzed the lives and brains of 678 Catholic nuns, showed that fostering linguistic ability in childhood and stimulating the expression of complex ideas may protect against Alzheimer's disease.
PET scanning studies found that college graduates have higher activity in the posterior cingulate, a key part of the brain involved in memory performance. Gary Small, director of the UCLA Center on Aging, sums it up in his book, "The Memory Bible":
"Mental stimulation, or exerting our brains in various ways intellectually, may tone up our memory performance, protect us from future decline in brain function, and may even lead to new brain cell growth in the future!"
Even rats do better in stimulating environments. In experiments, the rats with toys and treadmills grew new brain cells, had more synapses, ran faster through mazes and generally appeared more intelligent than rats in ordinary laboratory cages.
"Continual, lifelong mental stimulation is healthy for human brains as well," continues Small. "Mentally and physically active people over age 65 have been found to have higher IQ test scores and higher blood flow into the brain compared with those who remain inactive over a four-year period."

[End The Hypocrisy]

I'd be willing to transfer my memories to an entity like Data, although have you by any chance seen The Sixth Day starring Arnold Schwarzeneggar?

[End The Hypocrisy]

Fox News has a relevant article, too:


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,73987,00.html

[laredo44]

I'd be willing to transfer my memories to an entity like Data, although have you by any chance seen The Sixth Day starring Arnold Schwarzeneggar?

No, I've never heard of the Scrwarzeneggar flick? What's the plot?

For the record, I'm with you, I'd transfer memories as well.

Another question. Assuming we achieve immortality, and I believe we will, what will we do? How will we occupy all that time? I have some ideas, but would prefer to hear from others first.

[Eastbound]

"If they can't replicate themselves in the USA, they'll do it elsewhere. But if we can do it in the USA too, then good and moral folks can multiply as well, and consequently better combat the armies of Hillaries and Kennedies."

The Law of Diminishing Returns suggests that the armies of Hillaries and Kennedies will be ill-equipped to even feed themselves by the second generation. They will look like shmoos and will be useful for firewood, boat bumpers, soccer balls and standing in line in your stead at a matinee in the middle of the winter. You won't be able to tell the third generation apart from a hockeypuck.

Let 'em multiply. Good hockeypucks don't come cheap.

[End The Hypocrisy]

The 6th Day (cerca 2000 I guess) involves humans' cloning themselves and preserving their memories in databases, so that they can be "revived" in case they're killed. There's a catch though...cloning's banned in this futuristic U.S. of A (where the movie transpires). It's slightly similar to Total Recall as I seem to recall (no pun) that Arnold's cloned against his will, and nearly replaced so that he can't foil some evildoer's plot. The movie didn't do that well at the box office (maybe $40 million) but I liked it and I referred to it often.

As for whiling away the time living forever, just a century ago the average lifespan was merely 50. Now it's almost twice that and yet I don't see too many senior citizens racing to die. Imagine if they had their youth back, too...