‘YEMEN' SCUDS BAGHDAD-BOUND

New York Post ^ | 12/27/02 | URI DAN

[kattracks]

December 27, 2002 -- JERUSALEM - Scud missiles seized two weeks ago in the Arabian Sea were destined for Iraq, not Yemen, it was reported yesterday.

The missiles were captured aboard a North Korean ship but were allowed to proceed by U.S. authorities, who said an investigation showed the cargo was being legally sent to Yemen.

[swarthyguy]

Yes, weapons trades because it seems formal alliances between ideologically divergent regimes and nonstate entities seem passe and dangerous if proclaimed overtly.

Much better a wink and nod; islamist pakistan and secular iraq and communist northkorea....baathist Syria and wahhabi saud...

I think the divisions between the entire panoply of anti US powers are overblown. Their hatred unites them.

Look at the recent revelations concerning NK,Pak, Iraq.

[Inkie]

I'm guessing we know EXACTLY where those puppies are.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

As far a conventional warfare you are right. Saddam's little army wouldn't fight it's way out of a paper sack for him. And why should they? He has done nothing for them. But if he gets nukes (and NK would no doubt be happy to supply them) he doesn't need an army just a few loyal souls who can push a button and he holds the middle east hostage the same way North Korea holds South Korea hostage. We can still take him and we would have to do so but at a higher price.

One of the players in this is China. They now have two choices, put North Korea on a short leash or abandon them to their fate. I think they will choose abandon. What points south can also point north and they are a lot closer to "Beloved Little Leader Comrade" then we are.

We might have to fight two wars at the same time.

[Flyer]

I can't prove what does not exist

Then don't state it as fact.

Is there a website where I can find where Iraq and North Korea held joint military manouvers?

I don't know that they have held joint military maneuvers.

Houston Area Texans

[ALS]

Don't drool on it

[sarasmom]

I dont understand your accusation that the USA "fears" nukes to the extent you imply.

We know more about nukes than any other country.

Nukes can be very nice, warm & fuzzy,tactical weapons, when applied judiciously.We have a rather large amount of them ourselves.We would like to get rid of them, gradually, as they are just not environmentally friendly overall, but "fear" of nukes is not a factually correct statement in this instance.

During the Cold War MAD standoff with the (former) USSR, I can assure you, nukes were not really the primary deterrant, as mutually assured destruction was, well, assured.ICBMs, Aircraft delivered,and Submarine launched nuclear missiles were and continue to be in the USA, and the worlds arsenal.

The USSR was quite sure the USA would implement a massive MAD responce if attacked with nukes, or actually any WMD.They were entirely correct in their estimation of our resolve.But they were also the other big player at the time, and they also knew the USA would never actually lead an assault against them, or any other nation, with WMD.

The pesky little dictator led superpower wannabe's with small nuclear arsenals,are not, and should not, be accorded the same level of respect, not to be confused with fear.

I am certain the USA does not actually want to completely destroy North Korea.I am also certain we will, if we think it neccessary.

China better get a grip on her pawn,as it has overstepped its authority, and let its mouth overload its ass.

Obviously, this is not the actual ongoing diplomatic chatter, just an educated personal opinion of the situation, from a former Cold War veteran. ;^)

[philetus]

"The key to North Korea will be to get China on board."

China is never going to "get on board".

China may not want to kill all of us, but they sure would like to put a ring in our nose.

[Mr. Mojo]

Is there any chance a Syrian general will cap this fool [Assad]?

Don't know, but it would be a helluva good idea (if they'd like to avoid annihilation). But I'm afraid the deal is done. When our attack in Iraq appears imminent, Saddam and Hezbollah will shoot their whole WMD loads at Israel. The former would obviously have nothing to lose at that point, and the latter sees this as a prime opportunity they might never again have. Syria will be sitting back watching, but as I said in my earlier post, they'll be far from immune from Israeli retaliation. Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if The Samson Option were exercised.

[Defender2]

Take 'em all out, let the good Lord above sort 'em out!!!!

[Steel Wolf]

I think the point is that there is no evidence, one way or another, that there have been joint maneuvers between Iraq and North Korea. It would be unlikely, however, as they would need a common training area, in one country or the other, and the airlift and deployment of troops would be readily noticible in either country.

[Stultis]

Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if The Samson Option were exercised.

If the death toll in Israel rises into the hundreds, there is no telling. If it rises into the thousands, then I fear you are correct. Not the full Sampson, but the obliteration of one or two targets in Syria will probably be essential to demonstrate their determination not to be slaughtered.

[Rome2000]

Yemen=Enemy

[Stultis]

[Stultis]

Just occurs to me that there could be a real opportunity here, although God forbid that hundreds/thousands of Israelis are slaughtered.

What if Israel declared an intention to retaliate unless Assad were deposed and expelled, and Iraq submitted to a U.N. or U.S. managed transition to a representative form of government? Otherwise two days would be allowed for evacuations but then, boom, Syria loses two cities for the next 30,000 years.

[Stultis]

Iraq does not have any nukes yet so we will threaten to attack it, pressure it with war talk, humiliate its leadership and attack it at will.

North Korea has nukes and WMD and therefore we we will NEVER threaten to attack it, NEVER pressure it with war talk, NEVER humiliate its leadership and WILL NOT attack it at will. We will even allow North Korea to finish deliveries on scud missiles we seize on the high seas to Yemen.

This sends a very clear message heard round the world; If you do not have nukes and WMD the USA will treat you like Yugoslavia and Iraq if you develop nukes and WMD (and the ability to deliver them) in time you will be treated with distance and respect like we treat Pakistan, and North Korea.

It doesn't follow though, as you seem to be suggesting, that taking down Saddam accentuates the advantage to a rouge nation of acquiring nukes. Obviously the possession of nukes provides some level of invulnerability. It doesn't take an object lesson for anybody to reach that conclusion. But taking down Saddam does demonstrate that the ACT of acquiring nukes is extremely risky, and this is a good thing.

Furthermore the cases of Iraq and N Korea are not exactly comparable. Military options in the latter case are difficult and undersirable even apart from the NK's possession of nukes. Forget about the nukes and just consider that Seoul, with a population in excess of 10 million souls, is within artillery range of North Korea.

[Mr. Mojo]

I think that if Israel is hit by WMD and loses thousands of its citizens, they have to retaliate immediately (with nukes), else they lose all fear and respect in the Muslim world. No deals. The only (non-nuclear) option I can envision is if Israel just annihilates Syria conventionally, and annexes much land in the process. They only need a few divisions to accomplish this, and they'd have plenty left over to take care of anyone else who desires an ass kicking.

[Stultis]

I dunno. I suspect your average raghead dictator fears democracy a hell of a lot more than the loss of a city and a few hundred thousand citizens.

[Mr. Mojo]

So you're saying that the deal would require both Iraq and Syria to submit to a U.N. or U.S. managed transition to a representative form of government? Perhaps that could work, but our job would probably end with the transition, and lasting democracies can only work with people who are ready for it. Arabs/Muslims, alas, are not. Watch how Afghanistan falls apart when we finally leave.

[Defender2]

Post #53 reply. As a 27+ year veteran, I would have preffered a picture of a
real military leader, General Curtis Lemay.

[Stultis]

Assad: I will tell you Mr. Huroc, Mr. McBob, and I will tell the General, and all American imperialists, that we stand with the Palestinian people and their struggle against occupa...

Assad: [vaporizes]

Billy Sol: Hooey, he blew right up!

Big Jim: Yeah, he blew up good! What do you think Curtis?

General Lemay: Yeah, real good!