Growing dissatisfaction among career engineers

The Raleigh News & Observer ^ | Thursday, December 26, 2002 | TERRY COSTLOW, CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR

[SSN558]

"Engineers can expect to be pounding the pavement looking for work at some point."

I am an engineer. I have three college degrees and working on a 4th, "MBA". I have two P.E. licenses. The longest I have ever remained in one job is about four years. Some jobs are much shorter than that six months or less.

I have put rockets in space, drove the train that I helped engineer, and been involved in some other exciting projects.

I have also been down to my last dime after almost two years of unemployment.

A recent study by NSPE sez that the average time on the job for an engineer is now about 3.5 years and the average is getting shorter. It may be even less for those in the rapidly changing high tech jobs. You can't plan any kind of life around an engineering career.

Another study sez that the average engineering career will pay for itself after about fifteen years. This includes all mannner of things such as lost earnings while attending school, paying off education loans, the fact that engineers rarely get to work a forty hours week......and that is the average so at least half of you are not doing that good.

Meanwhile our engineering professional organizations, (I belong to five of these) shamelessly promote the profession to all manner of young people. Some of them are going to die ugly and waste years of their life persuing a dead end, engineering career.

[Krafty123]

I meant as an engineering discipline. I am going to try to combine it with an MS in Physics, but I haven't found a straight answer to how E Phys stacks up against other areas straight. At Pitt (where I am), it consists of 24 credit cores of EE, MSE, and Phys (essentially, EE & MSE without any elective courses). This looked like a good discussion to ask!

Ari

[Thebaddog]

What is the practical application of an engineering physics degree?

[dighton]

A pity, I thought engineering jobs were good and plentiful.

[tortoise]

The "computer" engineers are not, as people trained in other areas can quickly learn to do company required computer tasks, including programming.

A programmer and a software engineer are two wildly different things, though many people are clueless as to the difference. It would be like saying a drafter and a mechanical or civil engineer are the same thing. Superficial similarities are not evidence of actual similarity.

No chimp off the street can "quickly learn" to be a software engineer, as it takes a huge body of obscure knowledge and practical experience that you aren't going to absorb in a matter of weeks or months. It takes years of experience to be usefully competent, and even then you have to have some natural ability. Good software engineers are worth their weight in gold, most programmers are substantially less valuable and more fungible. Truly great programmers with extreme breadth and depth of experience are also worth a mint, but for different reasons and these people are pretty rare. A lot of programmers call themselves engineers, but a short Q&A session with a competent SE can disabuse them of that notion real quick.

Most programmers simply aren't aware of how much they don't really understand. It is the difference between being a good auto mechanic and the guy who actually designed the engine from scratch. The design engineer has a perspective and level of understanding that is beyond the auto mechanic; the engineer not only understands how it works, he understands WHY it works the way it does and the considerations and limits that went into the design decisions.

[HighWheeler]

This article is far too generalistic.

"Engineering" as a catch-all term varies widely depending on the discipine. Hardware design, chemical, and materials engineers are always valuable, especially in metals and electrical systems. Engineers who can plan projects get non-stop, high pay work as long as they bring the job in on time and within budget.

Most student engineers get there because they were interested in the money, but the substandard desire for engineering design will tank them in college, or if they are persistent, they will leave in only a couple of years after graduation.

I also know that there are a lot of medical professionals, accountants, teachers and lawyers who are equally disgruntled with their selected professions. You could nearly write this article for any of those professions by merely changing the word "engineer".

There are some root causes for all this unhappiness that lie outside of these individual professional worlds. My observations say they are driven by minority quotas, political correctness, and especially the flood of legal defense initiatives.

[VOA]

Paul Porter is closing the door on his engineering career - even though he's only 29.
In recent weeks, his wife and five close colleagues were added to the more than
50,000 employees axed by his employer, Nortel Networks

I know two Nortel engineers who were laid off over a year ago.
Both have found engineering jobs...but had to move from Dallas to Boston.

As hopeless as the folks in the article sound, I wonder if this is evidence of a
paradoxical phenomenon...maybe it can sometimes be better to be let go in the
early rounds of the downsizing of a company that sometimes had no clues what it was doing.

(One of the engineers said that he never was required to produce any substantive
work-product in his four years with Nortel. It seems the company was so busy shifting him
and lots of other personnel around between divisions that they forgot to ask for any sort
of work that would make a profit for the company. Just In-Freakin'-Credible, as
Andrew Dice Clay would say...)

[Thebaddog]

Great shot, it's in the picture file for future use.

[go star go]

The "computer" engineers are not, as people trained in other areas can quickly learn to do company required computer tasks, including programming.

Software Engineers are indeed in high demand. Also, if your company is doing as you say and having mission critical software developed by amateurs then they not only will fail as a company but deservedly so.

[johniegrad]

Just giving you a hard time, kiddo. Good luck in your decisions and studies.

[hope]

Engineer turned lawyer? Yikes!

[shotgun]

Having just passed my P.E. in Civil (April exam, Washinton State), I must agree with your statements. I worked my way from low man on the survey crew through being an engineering assistant, civil designer (while finishing up the last 2 yrs at O.I.T. full time and designing and building airports the other 30 hours left in the week)to now being able to hang a PE shingle at my desk. All told this has taken me 12 years.

I actually graduated this past June and was notifed 1 week later that I had passed the PE. Now I am considering going into private practice myself. I have worked both public (city employee) and private, and have yet to get a decent design or project from any consultant. A typical consultant will take the least amount of time to design and deliver a project, so they can maximize their profit, and deliver the sorriest work I have ever seen. It never fails that I end up reworking the project after construction has started. Yet the powers that be continue to throw gobs of money at the "Suits". The have a mentality that because they are in the Consulting Engineering business, that they know more then their own people.

[go star go]

Basically, Jethro Bodine in charge of designing the Space Shuttle...

[jim_trent]

At 29, he doesn't know anything yet. I am a registered professional engineer and am on my second career. I really liked engineering, but I doubt that it was EVER an "employment for life" job (except for late WWII through the late 1960's -- but that was the aberation, not now).

[edger]

WRONG!!! Hyatt Regency was not designed by a Junior Engineer fresh out of school, it was so lousy, it had to be designed by a Pakistani PHD.

Civil, Structural, Mechanical Engineering have long been interesting careers that would provide a living but no real wealth. Now the regulators have gone berserk, so they may no longer be secure professions.

[NoControllingLegalAuthority]

There is probably going to be NO secure career in the future. The pace of change will require constant retraining, education and switching of careers.

[KC_for_Freedom]

I have put rockets in space, drove the train that I helped engineer, and been involved in some other exciting projects

I too have put rockets in space, (and in the south pacific ocean, opps, I have also put rockets in SSB(N)s. I've also left the profession to teach and found teaching more rewarding but paying less. Many engineers went out of their way to tell me that they thought they would be good at teaching when I left. This is a second career opportunity for most engineers, math and science teachers are in high demand today.

I went back to engineering and with a BSEE, MSEE, MBA, and CSP I was still laid off twice. Engineers need to be willing to change locations as the job requires. More engineers work in the field than behind a desk and board ..er..computer. When I retired I was told I would be missed and have been offered consulting jobs back at the rocket factory. Retirement is working for me however and the young engineers need the openings. (If left to their own devices my firm wanted to keep a few of us old timers while converting the majority of the work force to younger & lower salary engineers. Thats what is happening.

[hottomale]

Culinary School seems to be the best choice for the younger generation. Maybe special emphasis on Soups and bread rolls.

[Rome2000]

Good lighting and power engineers are always in demand.

They don't teach you that stuff in college, the only way to become competent is on the job training and years of experience.

I have about as much in common with a guy that does programming as I do with a circus clown.

[Prof Engineer]

I am a 44 year old Engineer. I have three degrees. Mechanical, Aerospace and Electrical. I am a member of Who's Who, both Lexington and Stratfords. I hold a number of patents.

There is something being left out here. Do you have a P.E.?

Hear, Hear! I have PE licenses in two states. Even in today's economy, I am constantly approached by employers looking to hire me.