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To: Blood of Tyrants
Except Christianity. Which believes that no matter how good you are, you cannot live up to the God's standards to get in Heaven. God instead, knowing this came down to us in the form of an ordinary man to make the ultimate perfect sacrifice that would cover all people for all time if they would only believe in Him and follow.

Heh, I always liked this "get out of jail free card" of a religious concept. I know a few Christians closely who hold this view and it basically means they can do anything they like and still get to Heaven because they "believe." I asked them if a non-beliver, a baby raised in some non-Christian country, for instance, would get to heaven, or spend eternity in hell. Well, the Bible is pretty clear on that -- hellsville for the little children -- tough luck on them. No matter how loving and charitable and giving and every other thing we consider quality in a human being -- it is to the hellsville dumpster for them, cuz they didn't believe. But "believers" can cheat, steal, fornicate, lie, doublecross others, etc -- and they have a direct pass to Heaven.

Ya gotta get a kick out of looney religions and their nutty believers. It always makes me smile (except when they grab the hot coals and try to burn out the eyes of us disbelievers.)

75 posted on 12/22/2002 9:01:47 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
the Bible is pretty clear on that -- hellsville for the little children

Huh?

"And they were bringing to him little children, that he should touch them: and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it, he was moved with indignation, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me; forbid them not; for to such belongeth the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall in no wise enter therein. And he took them in his arms, and blessed them, laying his hands upon them."

Mark 10:13-16

Heh, I always liked this "get out of jail free card" of a religious concept. I know a few Christians closely who hold this view and it basically means they can do anything they like and still get to Heaven because they "believe."

I don't see you actually quoting these acquaintances to such effect as this view you complain of. Maybe you don't know these people as well as all that. I submit that your statement is merely a caricature.

I don't know your acquaintances myself, but if you were to tar ME with that same brush, I should direct you to James 2:19 and the surrounding context; also Romans 6:1 and the following discussion. I suspect that they would also.

81 posted on 12/22/2002 9:33:51 PM PST by thulldud
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To: jlogajan
. . . except when they grab the hot coals and try to burn out the eyes of us disbelievers.

That's terrible. When did this happen? Did you notify the police?

86 posted on 12/22/2002 10:10:50 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: jlogajan
" I asked them if a non-beliver, a baby raised in some non-Christian country, for instance, would get to heaven, or spend eternity in hell. Well, the Bible is pretty clear on that -- hellsville for the little children -- tough luck on them. No matter how loving and charitable and giving and every other thing we consider quality in a human being -- it is to the hellsville dumpster for them, cuz they didn't believe. But "believers" can cheat, steal, fornicate, lie, doublecross others, etc -- and they have a direct pass to Heaven."

Funny, my Bible doesn't teach this at all. Actually the opposite- your "believers" will probably be the ones in the dumpster. Read about some "woe"s.

96 posted on 12/23/2002 5:23:33 AM PST by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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To: jlogajan
Well, the Bible is pretty clear on that -- hellsville for the little children

Well, your friends are either wholly mis-informed or are holding back: there's a Gospel passage in which Christ states UNEQUIVOCALLY "unless you are like one of these [little children] you shall NOT enter the Kingdom."

OTOH, maybe you don't really want to understand religion, eh?

106 posted on 12/23/2002 7:45:42 AM PST by ninenot
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To: jlogajan
I asked them if a non-beliver, a baby raised in some non-Christian country, for instance, would get to heaven, or spend eternity in hell. Well, the Bible is pretty clear on that -- hellsville for the little children -- tough luck on them.

You apparently don't know the Bible or you would't have made such a broad and incorrect statement. It is clear about the matter and children will not be held accountable for their sins as they cannot fully conceive of right and wrong. God is infinitely wise, just, and compassionate. Or perhaps that man is wiser and more compassionate in this matter?. Those raised without the Gospel will be held accountable according to natural law; i.e. that God's greatness is everywhere and there are things that are inherently wrong.

And the Bible also teaches that guaranteed salvation is not and should not be used as a "get out of jail free card". It is not a license to sin, it is a pardon FROM sin. Salvation doesn't make you perfect, only forgiven. Those who think that they can attain salvation without a change in heart and actions are in for a rude awakening.

BTW, I have no desire to "grab the hot coals and try to burn out the eyes" of non-believers. Well, perhaps with the exception of the ACLU.

115 posted on 12/23/2002 8:07:31 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants
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