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To: general_re
Just thinking of a thread a while back, wherein you made what was essentially a libertarian argument for several rounds...

In your imagination only. It was "essentially" a pro-3rd party argument. Now I'm sure the many libertarians on this forum would be flattered to know that you consider the Libertarian Party the only third party that could ever be worthy of consideration, but it really isn't.

The Constitution is as meaningful or as meaningless as we all decide it is. In the end, it can't protect us from ourselves.

I don't think anyone on this thread believes that the Almighty Constitution (perhaps in conjunction with Univ*) will rise up and smite down any heathen government officials that don't abide by its Commandments. What I'm interested in knowing is if it matters to you whether their actions violate the Constitution.

1,080 posted on 12/23/2002 6:16:39 PM PST by inquest
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To: inquest
It was "essentially" a pro-3rd party argument. Now I'm sure the many libertarians on this forum would be flattered to know that you consider the Libertarian Party the only third party that could ever be worthy of consideration, but it really isn't.

I think it went beyond that to bear a striking resemblance to a libertarian argument, but I am willing to drop the point ;)

I don't think anyone on this thread believes that the Almighty Constitution (perhaps in conjunction with Univ*) will rise up and smite down any heathen government officials that don't abide by its Commandments. What I'm interested in knowing is if it matters to you whether their actions violate the Constitution.

It matters to me, but that's almost irrelevant. If the rest of the nation feels that some official action or program doesn't violate the Constitution, I have little choice but to abide by that while working to change their minds, or to vote with my feet and leave. It's not enough for you and I to want change, if we're the only ones.

Recent events have conspired to put conservatives in the driver's seat momentarily, although some here are clearly unsatisfied with the caliber of conservatives that are gipping the wheel. Even so, that's merely a temporary correction, and one subject to being destroyed as soon as the wheels of government start turning in the opposite direction. The Constitution can't end searches in airports, or abortions, or drug seizures, or government listening to your phone calls. Only we can do that. And the only way we can do that is to change the culture; else, we're simply imposing solutions on a people that don't really believe in them. And even if you ram through some change, ending some thing or starting another because you believe it is unconstitutional or constitutional, it will last precisely as long as it takes the left to regain the levers of power, because the people don't believe in what you are doing.

Congress and the courts and the President can implement every single piece of a conservative agenda now - they have the power. But unless the people believe those changes are the right thing to do, it will never last, and they will strike back tenfold in revenge. Government cannot lead the people anywhere they don't already want to go, whether it's to good things or bad. It's up to the people to lead government to where we want them to go.

You cannot change the state, and expect to change the culture by so doing. You must change the culture, and thereby change the state. The left understands this - this is precisely why they control the schools and the media. Perhaps someday we'll fully understand that too...

1,088 posted on 12/23/2002 7:25:40 PM PST by general_re
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