Coffee,Tea,or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wifes Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell attheAirport?

lewrockwell.com ^ | 12/18/2002 | Nicholas Monahan

[HairOfTheDog]

Even if true, that doesn't change the conditions of the situation. It's still the "security" staff that are the instigators and abusers, going beyond the bounds of valid behavior.

Looked at objectively, he and his wife were pat-searched. Their respective reactions, and HIS reaction to her reaction is what got HIM in trouble. Are boobs off limits in a search? Are women with big bellies off limits? I think everyone knows they are subject to a possible search when they fly. Are they only allowed to search me up to my elbows and no further?

[general_re]

Do *you* really think the ACLU told him that?

Not for a minute.

[MineralMan]

"They didn't have a problem with my steel Cross pen though. I could ram that sucker right through your heart, but no nail clippers. "

Actually, you could not, at least while facing me. You might be able to get my lungs from behind, but that would still leave me capable of turning around, and the end would shortly come. Your Cross pen in a frontal attack would be useless against me. I would disarm you and you would start with a broken wrist as a deficit if you wished to continue the attack.

You make a mistake here, in assuming that all those who do not find a problem with the current security measures are some kind of wussy folks. That's not the case.

The reality is that the security procedures are designed to remove serious weapons. The initial screening these days does a very good job of it, as we saw in the number of weapons siezed during Thanksgiving. The secondary screenings are probably superfluous, particularly those at the boarding gates. And, indeed, that is being scaled back now, which you would know if you had really been following this.

The entire system has changed now, to the TSA system, and that's still being sorted out. Lots of new employees to train and to weed out if they're the wrong ones. The recent changes have lightened this stuff up.

In the meantime, air travellers must either get used to increased security or quit flying. Nobody's insisting that you fly. I've taken my shoes off now at least 25 times in the past six months for security. No biggie. I've stopped wearing belts, since buckles trigger the metal detectors. I'm going to switch to sweat pants for flying now, since zippers also set of the detectors and force some TSA guy to run the back of his hands down my pants. I'm sure he doesn't want to do that, either. I put all metal stuff in my carryon before going through security. I even have a brand new leather holder for my boarding pass and my driver's license. So, I go through cleanly now, and haven't been pulled aside for a long time. I don't waste the screeners' time, nor the time of the people behind me.

In my carryon, I don't put funny looking stuff. No hair-dryers, fruitcakes, etc. Those go in the checked bags or did. Now I'll be shipping them ahead.

I travel light...always. My carryon is a small briefcase, with one change of undies, my toothbrush, any prescriptions I'm taking, and little else. If I must take my notebook PC, I have it out and on as I approach security. My wife, having been flagged for an underwire bra once, now wears a sports bra for travelling. It's so simple to travel easily now. You just plan ahead.

And guess what? It takes less time now to go through security than it did before, because most travellers have figured all this out and are doing similar things. It's the amateurs who are getting pulled aside because they haven't figured it out.

I'll give you another tip. Don't rush to the gate to board. Most random screenings are done to folks who are early boarders. Just wait a bit, until all the screeners are busy, and you'll get right on your plane with your carry-on that fits under the seat, sit right down, and get out of everyone else's way. Oh yeah...do buy a sandwich to take on the plane with you. It's much better than the food on the plane.

Just in case you give in and fly again.

[unspun]

They've got to turn them down sooner or later, if they're going to turn them down. Better not to lead them along and then tick them off later. The eager young folks who answer the phones are given charts, etc. to follow and they do their work.

Maybe the smell you smell is just the ACLU?

bye

[ChemistCat]

Judges aren't too fond of, "We're trying him, but we destroyed the videotape." Had he had the guts and the funds to let them try him, they would have had to come up with some evidence other than their written reports...wouldn't they?

I am not sure I want to know the answer to that. To those of us who find three hundred dollar fines worth worrying about, the cost of hiring a lawyer is prohibitive. "They" know they can do anything to us, just like Klebold and Harris knew no gun law could stop them.

Government is schizophrenic. You deal with it knowing it can be a good and gentle institution 90% of the time, but you never can be sure it isn't off its meds. Then, BAM. You're in the hands of an unrestrained Hannibal Lecter.

I bet if you tried to videotape your encounters with airport security, you would NOT have a happy result, or end up with custody of the video of what happens.

[MineralMan]

"I will not fly again until the insanity is over.

"

Good. More room for me.

[cajungirl]

Good suggestions!!!

[Jhoffa_]

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings also.

My comment was for illustrative purposes only.

I don't even know you, so it's obvious that I am not in a position to comment on any degree of "sluttyness" that might be relevent here.

But, I still think that a shock like this at 5 in the morning is allot easier to critique after the fact than it is to experience first hand.

[cajungirl]

Well, thank you. That was nice.

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks Jhoffa. Really.

[weaponeer]

I have always carried a knife: It's an Old-timer 3-blade stock knife. Until 9/11, I carried it in my pocket, putting it in the little tray when I went through security. Now, I put it in my checked luggage and retrieve it when I arrive at my destination. I've never needed the knife on the plane, so it's no big deal.

Nope, it's no big deal, until you need it.

[Trust but Verify]

(or do you think it's just fine to cause someone to cut your wife open?).

What? Who caused anyone to cut his wife open? She had a c-section because the baby was breech! It happens! Good God!

[paul51]

I can't disagree with you. It is concievable to me that they came down too hard on the guy and also they covered themselves. I'm not too naive to imagine it. None the less, in reading the article and evaluateing the tone of the guys own words, I think it is also likely the guys a jerk that provoked the situation and got more than he asked for. No sympathy here nor for that matter concerns that the same is likely to happen to me.

[Jhoffa_]

No, no.. the pen thing was a hypothetical. Like the hypothetical "threat" of someone getting on board with nail clippers.

Honest, if you ever saw past the gate and the store fronts in the airport it would shock you what you actually goes on.

Many of those procedures are meaningless.

Another good example is controlling access to the ramp, I had a security card and door codes, but I seldom if ever used them. Polite people, strangers. Pilots, flight attendants and so on just hold the door wide for anyone who wishes to pass.

There is really allot missing from this debate. I wish everyone could have the opportunity to actually work there and see for themselves how things go, as opposed to just seeing armed military personel at the checkpoint and assuming everything is safe.

[MineralMan]

I've never needed the knife on the plane, so it's no big deal.

Nope, it's no big deal, until you need it."

Nah. A stock knife is a crappy weapon. You can't stab with it, because the blade will fold. Slashing is a bad offense, since you leave yourself open. I'd rather be bare-handed than try to use a folding stock knife as a weapon. It's a tool, for cutting stuff and for cleaning your fingernails. I would never miss it if I were called upon to fight with someone.

[HairOfTheDog]

Now.... We should go shopping, really. I am not done yet either. :~D

[cajungirl]

I do know that this was upsetting to him and her. Any of us might be undone by it. But afterwards, when we think about it most of us try to look at our behavior and how we might have not ended up in this pickle. This man seems to be on a mission now, proving he was a victim, his wife was, and so on. I believe that somethings are better just let go of. When people feel misused, they often go off on a tear proving they were misused, it sort of drives them. I don't know if that is a good thing to do. Security is full of potholes and it ought to be improved, I am seeing it as I fly every two or three weeks. But it is a two way street. As Mineeral Man said, the goal is to get on the plane out of the way in the fastest way. Going into the process armed for bear, irritable, grumbling and ready to rumble won't help anything. I think he went in in an edgy way and this happened. I hate to see pregnant women cry and get upset, anyone would. But sometimes we just have to buck up, get a stiff upper lip and go on. Or if we can't, our husbands can help by helping us. Often men feel if their wives are upset they have to go do something, like knock heads together. This is an unfair burden for men and unwise at times.

[ChemistCat]

Some people just seem to have a natural "I'm here to cause trouble" look on their face. My brother is one such. He never DOES anything, but everyone assumes he's going to; he gets pulled over, searched, jerked around by authority, and when it happens he gets red in the face and shakes and looks guilty. It happened when he was a little boy and I was mad at him, for that matter. He looks guilty when innocent.

We need to require our public servants (sarcasm? sometimes) to keep evidence against us when we have done something actionable--or they must let us go. And we must be permitted to keep evidence against them. Who was on the scene to advocate for a pregnant woman and her volatile husband? But security could just keep calling more biased "witnesses" for their side.

[MonroeDNA]

No, I have no influence here. Good thing for me and FR!

But sometimes you can perceive patterns of language, and they remind you of people you have encountered in the past. Verbage, phrases, how often they puncutate.

I am starting to wonder if some small group about 4 or so years ago signed up under a bunch of different names, spaced months apart. So that now they can erupt.

I can name two (not on this thread). Funny how the job-loss posts seem to have vanished.

[meyer]

Frankly, I can't understand why half the airline industry is going bankrupt.

(/sarcasm)