Christmas Before Christ? The Surprising Story

United Church of God ^ | 12/200 | Jerold Aust

[DouglasKC]

2:16,17 - "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day, things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."
Galatians 4:9-11 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?
I fear that we waste far too much time arguing over things which are a "mere shadow of what is to come" and pay far too little attention to Christ, Himself

I think you need to read and study these passages from a 1st century Jewish/early Christian point of view and not from a 21st century perspective.

If you are truly interested read Are God's Holy Days Relevent Today

[Howlin]

No biblical support for Santa Claus

*Rolling my eyes*

[DouglasKC]

Oh, for Pete's sake! Friday is named after a pagan god. Does that keep you from picking up your paycheck at week's end?

No. I have direct depost and get paid on Thursdays. :-).

The problem with Christman though runs much deeper than a mere name...

[justshe]

I think we need to get back to basics here.

Did pagans breath? THEREIN lies the elemental basis for all the angst today. We need to make breathing a sin.

[Jael]

Have you ever done a word study on "groves"?

[DouglasKC]

Great article.

Wish I could take credit for it...:-)

You have freepmail...

[stripes1776]

Christianity was started by a Jew who incorporated non-Jewish ideas into his worship of God. As a result he was killed for blasphemy.

Using non-Biblical, not is to say ideas about God that do not originate in the Old Testament, sources for the worship of God is a very Christian thing to do. It's what the founder of Christianity did, and Christians have been doing this for 2000 years.

Of course there has always a small minority of Christians who want to Judaize Christianity: for example Seventh Day adventist who go to church on Saturday, Christians who won't eat pork, etc. But then new wine is for new wine skins. Put it in old wine skins, and they break open and you loose the wine.

Of course if you really want an Old Testament style religion of Middle Eastern purity, you could always convert to Islam.

[ladyjane]

Merry Christmas!

[justshe]

Fury....there doesn't seem to be too much room for interpretation of #27. And not too Christian of him either.

[LiteKeeper]

Interesting read, and well done. One problem - this posting has to do with Christmas, and I don't see that one listed among the "Biblical Holy Days in the New Testament."

As wonderful a time as Christmas, and truly a time for worship, to contend that Christmas comes from ancient tradition is erroneous. For a time, the celebration of Christmas was even outlawed by the various churches, particularly because there was no Biblical basis for it.

NOTE: I celebrate Christmas with the best of them. But, my faith and practice do not rest on it.

[2sheep]

>Please explain to us how your post in 27 is the Word.

I'll take a shot at trying to explain that picture to you.  If you don't understand this, go and pray about it.  His sheep HEAR and those who don't HEAR, aren't His sheep.  See John 10.

The "sea of glass" is for the overcomers not for the wicked who live by a gospel of Anything Goes and refuse to obey.  Understanding is denied the wicked who have closed their ears.  

Rev 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Bush is currently the leader on the broad road ("Road Map") to destruction, setting up the abomination of desolation, a Palestinian state in the midst of Israel.  A vote against Israel is a vote against the Most High G~d.  He does so thinking there are no consequences to opposing G~d and Israel, just like many Christians think they can do anything they like and think they are EXCUSED from obedience because they say they are Christians.  Nope, demons believe and tremble and most Christians don't have sense enough to tremble.  Most Christians have thrown out all those words in the Bible they don't like, such as sow and reap, obey, hear, do, follow and judgment.

"The United States on December 17, 2002 welcomed a British proposal to bring Palestinian delegates to a conference on Palestinian reform in January, saying it could complement the work of Middle East mediators. .."  Source

A Satan Claus cap lies in a sea of broken glass at Wal-Mart a day or two after Bush welcomed Palestinians into the process of betraying Israel.*  G~d says He will destroy all nations that come against Jerusalem.  That includes all so-called Christian nations such as America.  Dan and Ephraim are not in the list of 144,000 in Rev. 7 and it isn't because they got an early out in the form of a pre-trib rapture, but more likely because they were destroyed as Mystery Babylon and the endtimes Babylon of Jer. 50 & 51, Is 13, 47 and elsewhere.

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Here is another storm: October 30, 1991: The Perfect Storm—As President George H. W. Bush is opening the Madrid (Spain) Conference to consider “land for peace” in Israel’s Middle East role, the “perfect storm” develops in the North Atlantic, creating the largest waves ever recorded in that region.  The storm travels 1000 miles from “east to west” instead of the normal “west to east” pattern and crashes into the New England Coast.  Thirty-five foot waves crash into the Kennebunkport home of President Bush.

 Storm Warning - Special Report
 God's Perfect Storm Warning

[general_re]

We need to make breathing a sin.

I don't know. It's hard for me to think clearly with this plastic bag over my head, but I think breathing is definitely sinful...

[bonfire]

If you breathe AND shop at Wal-Mart you REALLY got a problem.

[general_re]

But, but...all I bought was a bag of dog food....

[DouglasKC]

One problem - this posting has to do with Christmas, and I don't see that one listed among the "Biblical Holy Days in the New Testament."

The point being that Christmas is the primary season (not even a day) that has replaced God's Holy days.

As wonderful a time as Christmas, and truly a time for worship, to contend that Christmas comes from ancient tradition is erroneous. For a time, the celebration of Christmas was even outlawed by the various churches, particularly because there was no Biblical basis for it.

I'm sorry but the facts on the orgin of Christmas are clear. You can go to any source and read about it as the article made clear. The history of the early church and how they merged nascent Christianity with paganism is also clear. You are correct in that various church groups have recognized the truth throughout history...groups of Puritans probably being the most prominent.

NOTE: I celebrate Christmas with the best of them. But, my faith and practice do not rest on it.

That is wise. My most illuminating moment was when I realized that the most God hating, secular, athiests celebrated Christmas in almost the exact same fashion as most Christians do.

[DouglasKC]

This year I have not put as much emphasis on Christmas as a "holy" holiday ( birth of Christ, etc ). The reason for my feeling this way is that I have begun to feel "convicted" in MY OWN spirit that EVERY day is a day to celebrate Jesus' birth, death, and resurrection. Jesus, to me, is not a once a year deal. Jesus is not just the "reason for the season" for me. He is the "reason for living".
Of course, my children will have the disappointment of not having so many things that they can't even begin to use or play with them till the middle of July '03 but that will pass as well. I have conditioned them to expect material things. I will accept full responsibility for that. But I want them to learn and know with all of their being that Jesus is not just important or more important on December 25th, but that He is an EVERYDAY saviour.

I think you are on the road to wisdom. God's way is to be lived every day, regardless of the consequences or persecution one needs to endure. Peace. :-)

[justshe]

Thank you for attempting to explain. However, your statement....

I'll take a shot at trying to explain that picture to you. If you don't understand this, go and pray about it.
His sheep HEAR and those who don't HEAR, aren't His sheep.

....brought an INSTANT MESSAGE to me. From God? I do not know. But I'm going to pass it on just in case.

Self-righteousness is cured by a healthy dose of humilty.

Proverbs 16-18
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

2sheep, I sincerely wish you a VERY Merry Christmas.

[justshe]

Dog food?

Dogs?

Curs?

Ohmygoshyou'vegoneanddoneitnow!

[ArneFufkin]

Maybe Christ was named for being born on "Christmas".

[ArneFufkin]

Everything in your little ritualistic worship of the Goat God Pan checks ok except the electronic Santa.

That's just sick.